Re: The Guardian and capitalism Archived Message Posted by margo on April 26, 2019, 12:40 pm, in reply to "The Guardian and capitalism" Monbiot makes good points, there's also a lot he +doesn't+ say. He writes this: "The threatened collapse of our life-support systems is bigger by far than war, famine, pestilence or economic crisis, though it is likely to incorporate all four" Climate change is dramatic and scary but is it correct to lift this issue up above (i) war (ii) famine (iii) pestilence and/or (iv) economic crisis? Is it so much "bigger by far" or is it, rather, so big and so interlinked with so many other problems that we need to address +all+ issues with the same urgency? Looking at the four issues named by Monbiot: War and economic crises are intimately linked and both factor in the collapse of the environment as anyone who's visited one of America's war theatres or economically-sanctioned enemy states, or anyone who's witnessed a river downstream from a squatter camp, can attest. Famine is partly linked with geographical and climate circumstances but is also intimately linked with economics, and displacement from wars. (iii) "Pestilence"? What does Monbiot mean by "pestilence"? Unless that word is clarified how can it appear on a serious list like this? Can these highly interlinked issues be separated out on a hierarchical scale, with one declared far bigger - and more worthy of media attention - than the others? What's of interest from a media analysis perspective, is the language used, in this regard: headlines, blurbs, captions and text. It's worth paying attention when the establishment-friendly Guardian breaks out with radical headlines. Does the newfound lexicon extend to other issues, or is ecology/climate change the only permissable subject for rousing headlines? For example, would The Guardian tolerate Monbiot writing an article calling for 'rebellion' in the streets and 'mass civil disobedience' to protest the arms trade, USUKNATO wars, the strangling of democratic scrutiny symbolised by the Assange case, the israel/Palestine issue etc? Or will radical lexicon be permitted by The Guardian editors only when it pertains to "the threatened collapse of our life-support systems" which "is bigger by far" than anything else? Only rebellion will prevent an ecological apocalypse George Monbiot No one is coming to save us. Mass civil disobedience is essential to force a political response LINK https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/15/rebellion-prevent-ecological-apocalypse-civil-disobedience -- - - - - -- - -- - - - - -- sample of below-the-line comments: Previous Message Comment Is Free: "Elsewhere in the Guardian we get daily moans that our economy is not growing fast enough" Previous Message Comment Is Free: "Capitalism died in 2008 when the state bailed out private interests" Previous Message Comment Is Free: " I agree with everything XR and Monbiot are saying. However, at this late stage does anyone actually know what it's going to take to replace our fossil fuel based civilisation? You can't continue to have iPhones, laptops, flying, 10 pairs of shoes, huge televisions, one car for every person ect, most the world goes without anyway but good luck taking these from western culture. What they ask can't be done in the time required. Now we have Attenborough talking about collapse of societies - was obvious decades ago we were heading for a cliff - what exactly needs to be saved here or have I missed something? Gross inequality, huge mental health problems, instagram stars, youtube celebs, millionaire sports figures, billionaire CEOs. Is that really worth saving? Monbiot doesn't want to question the reasons why climate change happened in the first place." Previous Message Comment Is Free: "The elephant in the room, George. The environmentalists cannot say this, extinction Rebellion cannot quite say it and the Left cannot say it either, but if we are to have anything approaching a future, then capitalism will need to be 'reformed' to within an inch of it's life. I have been critical of XR because, as much as I support their ultimate aims and understand the need for their tactics, I do not believe they have either the balls or the determination to get into the fight. 'Government need to tell the truth' and 'citizen assemblies' are nonsense until you can ;persuade' capitalists, capitalism and their mouthpieces to 'tell the truth'. Those citizen assemblies are going to be made of people who largely deny climate change, man's involvement in climate change or are simply unwilling to give up their lifestyle to save the planet. Government cannot 'tell the truth' because the people who lavishly fund their campaigns do so to prevent the 'truth' from coming out. Glueing yourself to a train is one thing, glueing ourself to an Apple store is another thing. Glueing yourself to the deniers' mouthpieces, is yet another. You want 'the truth'. You need to start with Fox, Sky, LBC, Facebook et al and the people who advertise on them too." Message Thread: The Guardian and capitalism - margo April 26, 2019, 11:03 am Re: The Guardian and capitalism - margo April 26, 2019, 12:40 pm Re: The Guardian and capitalism - brooks April 26, 2019, 1:20 pm Climate change won't kill US for decades, but nuclear war will - David Macilwain April 26, 2019, 2:19 pm May not be lack of integrity, b. An extra-large naivety streak, plus classic doublethink, exactly as - Rhisiart Gwilym April 26, 2019, 4:07 pm Re: May not be lack of integrity, b. An extra-large naivety streak, plus classic doublethink, exactly as - brooks April 26, 2019, 4:29 pm Dunno, b. Haven't followed him carefully enough to judge. Not impressed, though. I do know that some - Rhisiart Gwilym April 26, 2019, 8:03 pm   Searching