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    Re: Lobotomy for Russia... Archived Message

    Posted by John Monro on February 22, 2023, 9:14 pm, in reply to "Lobotomy for Russia..."

    I tried to track down that quote you provide no timing on the video = at 27.59 the Estonian PM replies "NATO is a peace project - on NATO is the function security guarentee, if we somehow agreed to these grey zones, then that should also be NATO membership."

    Borel next says Ukraine will be in the EU, its their future. He also states a further six nations will join. He admits investing €15 billion after 2014 and a further €60 billion. Now is done. Ukraine belong to Europe. It's member of EU, it is done. We have to be prepared for this like it or not.

    Swedish PM suggests speeding up of Ukraine's membership. Perhaps Poland needs to improve its own performance first. Goes on to state Europe's need to stay trans-Atlanticist - likely an alliance strengthened by gas pipe lines.

    Borel - no-oone pretends to substitute for NATO. Europe has been living a process of disarmament. Good news, good news. we are increasing our capacity. Poland 4% GDP, Frabce increase 40%. Germany €100 billion Euros All this cheer leaded by Borel. I want Europe fulfil its responsibilities. Relaiable and powerful partner of NATO We are in urgent war mode. (Borel - have you told the citizens??) In next two years, EU members will be spending another €70 billion on military expenditure. The enthusiasm of this man knowns no bounds. He ends "Or we'll waste tax payer money"

    Polish rep, we need to go on to a war footing.

    Ukraine rep stands up, we need to change Russia. There should be no Russian empire, The Estonian, says. Russia has had no tribunal to judge them - so there's no understanding of their crimes in the population .Russia will no disappear, but may change? Which Russia. What would have happened if Trump were in the White House, there'd have been no war .We must wind this war. Estonian, we have to work with accountability, that Russian imperialist dreams needs to be curtailed - we have to cut the cycle. - that may be what you're quoting. That's at 1.07

    We end on the idea with the increased militarisation of the EU, it has become a mini NATO within NATO but Borel disagrees, defence is a national sovereignty.

    NOT ONE MENTION OF PLAN B. when Russia is winning and they are losing. No discussion of what the EU and these nations are actually aiming to do in this situation. No discussion of what they'll do when we reach "as long as it takes".

    The Estonian PM seems entirely to forget that Finland its cultural fellow has lived in perfect peace and prosperity with Russia on its boarder for the last 70yrs, No one here has yet to work out that membership of NATO is an existential risk for that member, because by definition it excludes the most powerful nation on its doorstep any say on its own security on it own border . These people are all insane, when so many other existential issues are knocking on their nations's borders

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