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The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 21, 2024, 5:28 pm

Re: The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)

Posted by Cockneymystic <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Cockneymystic' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 21, 2024, 9:27 pm, in reply to "The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)"

I think there may be mire to this story than meets the eye. Lots of deep state links, cyber spying etc. UK Column had an interesting segment on this today.

Re: The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 21, 2024, 11:33 pm, in reply to "Re: The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)"

Yes, after doing a bit of reading around the story, I see what you are saying.
Still, a bit overkill, I'd venture.

Re: The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2024, 10:36 am, in reply to "Re: The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)"

I did catch the story that his co-defendant in the fraud trial died after being hit by a car the day after the ship sank and thought that was almost like a bad John Grisham adaptation or something. I didn't read up on it too much but they have detained the woman who hit him and it just seems like a coincidence but still, stopped me in my tracks briefly.

Any chance of a link to that UK Column video, Cockney?

...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.

re the Bayesian sinking, publicity not surprising, Geoff Bezos might be having second thoughts?.

Posted by John Monro <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=John+Monro' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 21, 2024, 10:19 pm, in reply to "The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)"

Well, it's a sad diversion I suppose. However, I've done a bit of sailing myself, and what I do know is that this very large yacht should not have capsized and sunk like it did. The NZ captain of the vessel will be questioned about all this. For the vessel to capsize and sink in just two minutes suggests some fundamental flaw in its design.

1. was there any prior warning of possible storms? - though perhaps not quite so dramatic as actually happened - the captain who survived will need to explain all this, as likely hatches and porthole were open in the heat of Sicily. Sicily is now in the process of being desertified of course.

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/19/droughts-desertification-heatwaves-the-climate-crisis-hits-sicily-hard.

2. The fact that the vessel was at anchor, although usually a safe thing, might have been a factor in swinging the vessel so violently that it "tripped up"

3 The incredibly long mast, was the longest in the world, now second, was almost certainly a serious design fault. Basically, for bragging rights, the designer put the boat at risk, the leverage of the mast and rigging in high winds would be significant, and its moment of intertia huge if swinging from side to side in heavy seas or winds, and it's very doubtful the vessel would sail any faster. For a cruising vessel there's absolutely no need for a mast that tall, and for seaworthiness a two masted vessel, eg ketch or schooner is much preferable. Modern technology is great, but there's something to be said for tradition and knowledge gained over centuries of sailing history.

The yacht has another NZ association as the designer was Ron Holland,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Holland

Here's the blurb on the yacht, its design and its fate

https://rutherfordreader.com/bayesian-yacht/

4. Apparently the vessel had a swing keel, and if retracted, which it would have been at anchor, this would have reduced the vessel's stability yet further.

5. The squall or water spout was certainly violent, but such a large well built vessel should have coped with it.

It's all very tragic. So the publicity is understandable, people will be noting that wealth doesn't always protect you from danger or harm - it was similar with the Atlantis sub, wasn't it.

Finally, when the Bayesian was built, the mast at 237 ft high was the highest aluminium mast in the world, well, in the long pole stakes, if you can't boast a long penis or a long car bonnet, then a mast will substitute, so Bezos's new super yacht has an even longer mast, now the world's longest, at 278 feet. Hmm, thinks Bezos?. However, Bezos's boat is much much bigger, and is a three masted schooner, so perhaps he'll get away with it.

Just compare the height of the mast, to the length and width of the boat, the mast is out of proportion. Look too at the rigging. Six spreaders on the mast. And this is a "cruising" yacht?

and Bezos's contribution to a new egalitarian world

Fancy such hifalutin name for the yacht, where captain was so lackadaisical

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2024, 10:27 pm, in reply to "re the Bayesian sinking, publicity not surprising, Geoff Bezos might be having second thoughts?."

Thanks for the detailed analysis, I think this item seems likely to be the key:

4. Apparently the vessel had a swing keel, and if retracted, which it would have been at anchor, this would have reduced the vessel's stability yet further.

Captain to blame imo. Pure and simple. He should have been familiar with the design and thought it through to emergency procedures. Coupled with hubris of the rich/the owners (with dodgy past/s).

Re: I think the name's fine, named after a mathematician. the comment on the captain isn't fair....

Posted by John Monro <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=John+Monro' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 1:24 am, in reply to "Fancy such hifalutin name for the yacht, where captain was so lackadaisical "

I don't think that's at all fair, I've pointed to some of the various things that might have combined to cause this tragic event - to apportion blame we must wait for a professional investigation. The insurance company will certainly want to know as well as the maritime authorities

The whole point of a swing keel is to reduce the vessels draught in harbour or at anchor, but provide stability when sailing. It wouldn't be normal to have the keel down at anchor - it would be liable to significant damage if it hit the bottom. and even put the vessel at risk. But we don't as yet know - I merely mentioned this matter as one of the factors that might have contributed. The event happened at night and the squall/water spout or whatever wouldn't have been seen. If there is blame, then not securing hatches, portholes and companionways etc when there was a forecast for local storms (and there was, apparently) and maybe ensuring an enhanced night deck watch in case of trouble would be the captain's or mate's responsibility . We may learn that the design of the deck superstructure was not adequately strong in the case of a knockdown, the designer may have assumed this would never happen, eg the huge extent of large glass windows around a massive stern lounge seems an obvious vulnerability.

To my way of thinking a boat like this should never have foundered as rapidly in this way, even if the squall/waterspout was particularly severe, , and I suspect mostly due to the design (and this will apply to many other modern super-yachts) which made assumptions about seaworthiness and the robustness of modern materials and engineering that that at the extreme, as unfortunately happened here, were not sound. As regard to the captain, yes he shouldn't have lost the vessel, but as I say, best wait......

Of course it refers to a mathematician .. hence hifalutin (roll)

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 2:04 am, in reply to "Re: I think the name's fine, named after a mathematician. the comment on the captain isn't fair...."

The whole point of a swing keel is to reduce the vessels draught in harbour or at anchor, but provide stability when sailing. It wouldn't be normal to have the keel down at anchor - it would be liable to significant damage if it hit the bottom. and even put the vessel at risk.

I did mention emergency procedures. Basically it's 1,2,3 .. if anchored etc.

.. the robustness of modern materials and engineering that that at the extreme, as unfortunately happened here ..

Speculations galore whilst expecting bias-free outcome. Yes, it needs investigating etc.

Re: Of course it refers to a mathematician .. hence hifalutin (roll)

Posted by John Monro <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=John+Monro' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 2:10 am, in reply to "Of course it refers to a mathematician .. hence hifalutin (roll)"

I don't see why naming a boat after a mathematician is in any way "hifalutin". Strange thinking......

I don't see why naming a boat after a mathematician is in any way "hifalutin".

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 2:31 am, in reply to "Re: Of course it refers to a mathematician .. hence hifalutin (roll)"

... Strange thinking......

Most people are not familiar with mathematical concepts. Statistical, cosmic or otherwise. The irony, not that easily detectable, in this case, is that 'they' effed up somewhere between mathematics and safety procedures imv.

"strange thinking" would be someone on this board caring for the fate of a billionaire immigrant.

Posted by Der <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Der' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 9:35 am, in reply to "Re: Of course it refers to a mathematician .. hence hifalutin (roll)"

When not so long ago they were trying to tell us that the problem with the country was too many immigrants. As the billionaire was Irish, I'd have thought you'd have been celebrating one less immigrant.

You resent sharing the cake with poor immigrants but you're okay with a rich immigrant running away with the entire cake. "Strange thinking", indeed.

I resent the time spent looking for this doorstop. I'd have a lot more time for him if he went quietly out on his yacht rescuing so-called "illegal" immigrants now and again, take them home, give them a hot bath, feed them and tell nobody.

To add,

Posted by John Monro <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=John+Monro' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 2:08 am, in reply to "Re: I think the name's fine, named after a mathematician. the comment on the captain isn't fair...."

Just to add, the blame game is already swirling around the internet. It may well turn out the captain / crew were not just lackadaisical as you put it, but negligent, but as I say, let's give the pros a chance to tell us, in fairness. I wonder how many other vessels had their portholes and hatches open in the heat of Sicily at the time, quite a few I'd imagine. Apparently the mast did break, without sails on it, so we probably do know of one possible structural shortcoming. Just saying........

Re: To add .. sure

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 2:22 am, in reply to "To add, "

From my very limited maritime experience and ... I don't claim to be an expert .. closing hatches/portholes should have been a part of the safety procedure i.e. before the predicted storm.

Breaking of the mast without sails seems weird and troubling if true.

t

Well said, Ed! Priorities, indeed. nm

Posted by Der <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Der' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 9:40 am, in reply to "The priority...Wall to wall coverage of a dodgy billionaire's luxury yacht sinking! (nm)"

Incidentally, "dodgy billionaire" is surely a fine example of tautology! nm

Posted by nm <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Der' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 9:44 am, in reply to "Well said, Ed! Priorities, indeed. nm"

A tautology? Indeed Der, as Balzac said "Behind every great fortune lies a great crime" (nm)

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2024, 1:32 pm, in reply to "Incidentally, "dodgy billionaire" is surely a fine example of tautology! nm"

Ed, check out Capitalism Beyond Mutuality

Posted by Der <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Der' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 24, 2024, 7:48 pm, in reply to "A tautology? Indeed Der, as Balzac said "Behind every great fortune lies a great crime" (nm)"

by Subramanian Rangan.

In particular, Ch 10,
'Behind Every Great Fortune is an Equally Great Crime',
by Jay B. Barney and David Schmidtz.

https://libgen.gs/get.php?md5=f0e3e4b4c59fdaa28cc7fc5d7bf5e83c&key=APJ2G7AUK6QZO49R

Cheers, Der...will do (nm)

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 24, 2024, 8:22 pm, in reply to "Ed, check out Capitalism Beyond Mutuality"

Also, Ch7 "Our Obligation to Future Generations" by Amartya Sen

Posted by Der <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Der' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 24, 2024, 10:40 pm, in reply to "Cheers, Der...will do (nm)"

I had initially approached the book with deep suspicion lest it was just a ploy to foist on us the idea that Capitalism and morality can be bed fellows.

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