Lammy urges ‘guts’ in ongoing US talks over Ukraine using missiles in Russia
In remarks apparently directed at White House, UK foreign secretary says Kyiv’s allies need to show ‘nerve’
The UK foreign secretary, David Lammy, has indicated that delicate negotiations with the White House to allow Ukraine to use Storm Shadow missiles inside Russia are ongoing, arguing it was a time for “nerve and guts”.
The apparent encouragement to Joe Biden comes just over a week after Lammy and Keir Starmer visited the US president in the White House but failed to resolve the sticking point between two countries.
Speaking at a fringe event at the Labour party conference in Liverpool, Lammy said the hardship and challenges of the war in Ukraine would get “deeper and harsher”, particularly heading into “the back end of 2025 into 2026” and beyond.
“So this is a critical time for nerve and guts and patience and for fortitude on behalf of allies who stand with Ukraine,” he said in comments that appeared directed at a hesitant White House, concerned about the risks of allowing Storm Shadow missiles to be used to attack Russia.
Lammy emphasised that Ukraine and its western allies were discussing “what more might be necessary” to help Kyiv on the battlefield beyond trying to hold the frontline, which is under acute pressure in the east.
“I am not going to as foreign secretary, of course, comment on operational details, because that can only aid Putin,” Lammy said, in an apparent reference to Storm Shadow missiles. “But there is a very real-time discussion across allies about how we can support Ukraine as we head into winter.”
Ukraine’s President Voldymyr Zelenskyy called on Biden again on Saturday to allow Ukraine to carry out long-range strikes inside Russia. His plea came before a critical meeting between the two on Thursday at the UN general assembly in New York. The issue, he added, remained unresolved despite Starmer lobbying Biden in person nine days ago.
Zelenskyy wants to be able to use British, French and Italian Storm Shadow missiles, as well as US-made Atacms to hit airbases and other military targets inside Russia. He has argued that the Kremlin could be motivated to seek peace if it was clear that Ukraine could strike targets closer to Moscow.
The UK has donated Storm Shadow missiles from its stocks, but its European partners and the US need to give their permission for Ukraine use them on Russian soil. The weapons also rely on a US guidance system to evade Russian jamming, without which they risk being ineffective if launched.
Starmer’s White House meeting with Biden, where they discussed the issue, the wider Ukraine war, the Middle East and China, was deliberately low key. No announcement about Storm Shadow had been expected, but the absence of a briefing after the summit suggested no breakthrough had been achieved....no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
Is it me or is UK Plc setting itself up for a military humiliation on the world stage?
... that might be part of the plan to bait Russia into sparking WW3 and drawing in the Americans & NATO. On the other hand it might provide Russia with the opportunity to send a message that they're not to be trifled with. Avoid direct confrontation with the US, but kick its yapping poodle to the curb. I expect we would find the 'special relationship' wouldn't amount to much in that situation, as there's no way the US would be able to confront Russia directly (unless it went nuclear of course).
I'm probably revealing my ignorance of how these things work again - which is fine, I don't aspire to the kind of sociopathy that governs those levels of international relations. And 'kicking the poodle to the curb' sounds satisfying in a Hollywood schadenfreude kind of way until you think about what that means for all the ordinary people who would likely suffer as a consequence. But is there any other way out of this other than a short, sharp shock to bring these d!ckheads to their senses?
I'm obviously missing something. From a US perspective, this was engineered primarily to weaken Russia and destroy EU/Russian trade - in particular with regard to energy. By the looks of things, US strategists are purposefully creating a new cold war scenario, corralling their vassals and solidifying their bloc. They're escalating their attempts to retain primacy by hindering/damaging all of their peer/near peer rivals and seem happy to degrade supposed allies in the process. Something like that, anyway.
So what does the UK gain by dangerously escalating the war with Russia? It seems almost desperate. Why else would you push for such risks? What do they stand to win or lose?
I assume that it will have been orchestrated by Caesar's lackeys from the start, for a bit of cheap sabre rattling. If the British had the independence to calculate that American Caesar was going to refuse their request to start the Third World War then their vehemence in making it is inversely proportional to the likelihood of gaining permission. The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Isn't the UK just living in the past? Aren't our leaders just living in the past. The Great Game, The Second World War. The British Empire. James Bond. MI6. The Special Relationship. The Spanish Armada. Punching above one's weight.
When the UK Minister of Defence, Ben Wallace said shortly after Russia's invasion of Ukraine " the British Army "kicked the backside of Tsar Nicholas I in 1853 in Crimea” and claimed “we can always do it again”. he was living in the past. A remark totally ignored in the MSM. A profoundly stupid man in one of the mos t important leadership positions in the country, supported by a team of equally stupid and regressive politicians, all reinforcing their stupidity with the support of the majority of the media, all living in the past. A knight of the realm no less now elevated to the Premiership, armour clad and charger mounted, banner streaming, forward men, for King and country.
Oh, dear, Ben Wallace, you started this, you forgot about the Charge of the Light Brigade. And Starmer forgets the Indian Mutiny, the Irish Revolt, the Maumau rebellion, the Suez Crisis, the Fall of Singapore, the American Revolution ........
No motive needed. Just the simplistic militarist reflexes of Col Blimp, the bravery of Biggles and the suavity of Bond, waving the Union Jack, reflexes barely making their way above the brain stem.
"So what does the UK gain by dangerously escalating the war with Russia? It seems almost desperate. Why else would you push for such risks? What do they stand to win or lose?"
What they often get are the crumbs from the masters table...though usually they try for a bone. It's one of those things hard to work out perhaps because it reflects multi-dimentional UK stupidities conceits and delusions.
Lots of the elite think that they are "the same" as the Americans ( "they" speak "our" English after all) and vice versa, so they don't see the reason for a differing UK policy. The US meanwhile view the UK more as an expendable appendage, but there's a masochistic subservient UK element in the "special relationship" : a nation of cap doffers who "know their place" are willing to play denial on that one. They also think of the US as carrying on the great UK empire "tradition": a kind of "Our Greece to their Rome"...and are thus keen on the US continuing with their own inherited Russiaphobic ideals and policies.
Of course a little country well past its Empire " sell-by" date should be focussing on its own future security stability & wealth but alas, delusions of grandeur are all too common in the UK elite and it's military establishment.
Is there a pressure from weapons manufacturers, or more general militarist goals to expand the armed forces? Could be that wealthy donors have a lot invested in the ongoing exploitation of Ukraine's resources and/or reconstruction contracts too... Otherwise it does all seem incredibly counter-productive if not outright insane.Tell your story; Ask a question; Interpret generously http://storybythethroat.wordpress.com/tell-ask-listen/
Well it's true that the UK Arms Industry accounts for near 13% of the economy and its either the second or third biggest arms exporter worlwide.
The Arms Industry is of course notoriously corrupt, therefore the UK government under the Export Guarantee system ( think it got renamed a few years ago) foots the bill when deals go bad, so... it's a wonderful taxpayer subsidised business with no risk to private capital at all.
Lots of UK Arms companies are in bed or wholely owned by US concerns...and of course the whole of the UK stinks of militarism:
The apex of the UK establishment: the royal family are a living advert for the military and "Tampon" Charlie, "Pedo" Andy and I think "Pegger" Willie have all been around the world at various times drumming up trade from approved dictators for UK guns n' bombs...so you can bet your noble pound note they are all personaly knee deep in Arms Industry shares and earnings. Pervy Andy of course gave us the rundown of the establishment view with his speech a few years back that Britain was once again fighting the " Great Game" with Russia yet again "...and this time we will win!"
-Delusional yes, but there you are. Of course that's to be expected when they all spend half their lives dressing up as toy soldiers with acres of gold braid and fake medals and given the Royal stamp of approval the rest of the elite money follows on into guns n' bombs with no further thoughts of morality.
> the Export Guarantee system (I think it got > renamed a few years ago)
I don't know the new name; but to be pedantic, I think 'Export Credit Guarantees' was the old name. A stunning wheeze, too. We like Saddam and sell him military hardware, because he hates Iran just like we do. We give the sellers ECGs; Saddam defaults on the payments; taxpayers' money is poured in to fill the void; the west then destroys Saddam and the hardware; we sell stuff all over again to Iraq's new regime... It's mangificent in its pristine depravity...
Is there a pressure from weapons manufacturers, or more general militarist goals to expand the armed forces? Could be that wealthy donors have a lot invested in the ongoing exploitation of Ukraine's resources and/or reconstruction contracts too... Otherwise it does all seem incredibly counter-productive if not outright insane.
Between you, me, and the lamppost, I'd go for the insane notion .. delusional in other words, if you like. Many report that expanding armed forces in the US is *not* on the cards. I can't remember the figures but there is a serious shortage in terms of enlistment into US military. Most potential enlistment bods are unfit and are generally not interested (.. it seems, as I read it).
To my mind, whichever branch of the US gov't decides that someone needs to provide a permanent injection of funds into the budget for industrial arms expansion is also not on the cards. The investors are probably not interested, perhaps because they sense that project Ukraine is on the ropes. Capitalist economics I suppose.
Meanwhile, BlackRock is the main investor into Ukr, as I understand it .. they hoped to capture Donbass, way back, probably before 2014, where all the resources are i.e. mines/black earth/industrial capacity region. Not sure what they are after now unless they hope to get funded by EU in some way as the Ukr as an entity possibly disappears. They'll get zilch from the Russkies : ). Cents to the dollar and all that if they are lucky.
.. apologies for not getting more suitable epitaphs in, for this empty suit 'aligning to Kid Starvers' policies which are utterly despicable. Empty arsenal for empty suits .. this is me being stumped.
Maybe getting slapped down by Washington on the eve of the Labor Party conference left them having to shadow box to keep up appearances. Speculatively, that is all there is to it.
I mean, looking from Lammy’s point of view, what else can he really say? “I was going to do this but Biden told me not to, aren’t we a great new government nothing like the old one”?
Perhaps anyone who believes the UK has soverignty will be distracted by the illusion..
on September 22, 2024, 6:20 pm