Probably about 6 no's back to back there Graham, from what I see of "craft" students as opposed to "TEC" students, which was the system I qualified in, in early to mid eighties, no comparison,

How many here went to the Greenford skills centre in North London in the eighties, that was the industry standard then, what is frightening is how many candidates could not build up a rocker shaft from a box of bits on a OHV engine, I know things move on, but my local tech college has just laid off a load of tutors,less tutors means less tuition, and that is due to Osbourne !!

And he is about to reduce funding further, you reap what you sow, and this election has sown seeds of hell !!