I agree with you on that Peter, I have been saying for years that these signs for the likes of ATA, Good Garage and others are a waste of time and money, it only takes one company like this to con the public and not get their membership revoked, and it brings all the other members down to the same level as far as the customers are concerned, so word of mouth it is, it has worked for me now since 1981, and Jon you only have to talk to the lads that work at QF and Halfords to get to know what they are told to do to customers cars to bring in more work. Tom