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Lesson Learnt - Fitting aftermarket products #

Posted by Pete Mutlow on March 10, 2010, 7:00 pm
Message modified by board administrator March 11, 2010, 8:05 am

Evening,

We all know the problems that can be associated with fitting after market products. Problem is a lot of garages and customers don't.

Went to a very tidy 02 plate Micra in mid December with lack of performance. Quick diagnosis showed problem with throttle body (AFM) and garage replaced it with A Fuel Parts unit against my advice. Was Ok until 2 weeks ago then car had problem with intermittent lack of power with EML showing. Diagnosed faulty AFM again and unit went back under warranty. The retailer would not replace unit until proved faulty by Fuel Parts which takes about 2 months. Garage then forked out another £250 or so for another unit and after fitting, vehicle ran lean with high idle. I diagnosed faulty unit and garage then stumped up another £250 for another Fuel Parts unit. On fitting, vehicle had high idle with lack of power and poor emissions. I then diagnosed same problem and by now garage and owner was a bit miffed and refused to pay another £250. Also, garage was beginning to doubt my diagnosis and I too was beginning to doubt my competence. Suggested to garage to get hold of second hand genuine unit and see what happens. Part obtained today from Jap Parts in London and garage rang today to say that vehicle runs perfectly.

I know we all have had this type of problem, but it gives you a nice warm glow inside when you have been proved right

The thing that makes matters worse is that the people at Fuel Parts were not helpful toward the garage and suggested that it was an ECU problem or mis-diagnosis.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Lesson Learnt

Posted by martin young on March 10, 2010, 7:24 pm, in reply to "Lesson Learnt"
Martin Young

pete
just had exactly the same with the local garage i diagnosed the maf and they fitted a fuel parts one then brought it back to us because the idle was high
we found some gasket paper jammed in the idle control valve
three throttle bodies with problems later they got one off the net which was fine

martin

Re: Lesson Learnt

Posted by Pete Mutlow on March 10, 2010, 9:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt"
Peter Mutlow

Hi Martin,

Was going to take mine apart but did not want to compromise the guarantee.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Lesson Learnt

Posted by Gwyn Williams on March 10, 2010, 10:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt"
Gwyn Williams

Oh boy, have I suffered with this!! Coils, coil packs, AFMs, temp sensors, O2 sensors and more! Sick to the back teeth of cheap unreliable parts. And before someone tells me not to use them, I don't, its the customers going for cheap bits.
I have had Fuel Parts Vw coils on plugs setting fire to wiring harnesses and Fuel Parts Peugeot coil packs causing interference with injector wiring. Local distributer no help, coming up with excuses like "Must have got water in the connector". I believe these things are sourced from China and someone is making a fortune from them. To date, I have had no money refunded or even an admission that the components are faulty.
Last problem was a failed COP on a Polo. Customer handed me a new one in a Fuel Parts box. I looked doubtful and was just about to refuse to use it when I opened the box to look at it. It has a Bosch sticker on it! Genuine Bosch?! Great!! Hold on though, closer inspection revealed the sticker was on over print which was identical to the failed ( recently replaced FuelParts) coil. Another Con! Obviously not Bosch, how are they getting away with it? Surely Bosch can take action against these people.
This is costing me time and money,I haven't the heart to charge a full fee when customers are being conned like this.
Have these guys taken over an outfit that used to use blue and yellow boxes?

Regards, Gwyn

Re: Lesson Learnt until next time????

Posted by Keith Simpson on March 10, 2010, 11:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt"

Hi Guys I have to say 90% of the time you can only blame yourselves. Why would you want to give your customer the choice between cheap crap and a quality replacement part. Unless you like your customer that much you want to see them again two months down the line.

These suppliers are making a fortune off your backs because many garages do not invoice there supplier for labour when they sell you a part that goes wrong.

Keith

Re: Lesson Learnt

Posted by Paul Foster on March 11, 2010, 10:34 am, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt until next time????"
Paul Foster

Had an interesting discussion with an Fuelparts rep and a seminar held by Bullseye Motor factors in Doncaster.

I had been refusing to even consider using their products after having problems with the first ones I had fitted. The rep maintained that 90% of returned parts were checked and found 'not faulty'!! I pointed out that, having fitted one of their cam sensors which didn't cure the reported fault, then spending time re-checking my diagnosis, I decided on a genuine unit which instantly cured the fault.

When I returned the faulty sensor I was told (after it had been 'tested') it was not faulty!

I asked the rep "How it could not be faulty when a quality unit had worked?" (at this stage with a good audience of other garage owners!)

his response was that I must have fitted it incorrectly or there was a problem with the multi-plug or the wiring! I told him what I thought of his company and left it at that.

My point is - Where do these 'non-faulty' parts end up? Could it be that they end up back on the shelf of the local parts suppliers?

We can't all be wrong, can we?

Re: Lesson Learnt

Posted by Graham Bullock on March 11, 2010, 4:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt"
Graham Bullock

Quote Paul "When I returned the faulty sensor I was told (after it had been 'tested') it was not faulty!"

I suppose it depends on whether it meets THEIR standards or the manufactures standards, if they test for 300ohms and it is 300ohms it is going to pass but that is no good if a genuine one is 350ohms.

It always amazes me how aftermarket goods are matching OE quality but don't last two minutes compared to original fitment parts. I think it's about time our trade associations got off their backsides.

Graham

Re: Lesson Learnt

Posted by Pete Mutlow on March 11, 2010, 8:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt"
Peter Mutlow

Evening Paul,

You ask where the faulty parts end up. As I alluded to in my first post, it takes a couple of months or so for the part to be tested and a refund made.

This tells me one of two things:

1) Part is put back on the shelf and if
comes back again , it is deemed as faulty.

2) If it takes 2 months or so, then I
reckon the delay is because they have so
many faulty parts to test

Regards

Pete M

Re: Lesson Learnt

Posted by Jean Massey on March 12, 2010, 9:45 am, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt"

Hi guys

You might like to read Franks article covering this very subject featured in the Aftermarket magazine on page 18/19
http://www.browse-and-read.co.uk/aftermarket/2010-02/1

Re: Lesson Learnt - Fitting aftermarket products #

Posted by Tom Williams on March 16, 2010, 12:48 pm, in reply to "Lesson Learnt - Fitting aftermarket products #"
Tom Williams

Poor quality 'pattern' electrical parts, amongst other things, have been on sale since the earliest days of motoring.
It make me mad, when one reads in the trade press, yet another article where some member or chairman, of one or other of the parts distributors associations, refers to vehicle makers as mere 'parts assemblers'.
That they may be, but at least they assemble using quality parts.
So much stuff is sold as 'OE quality' when it quite obviously, is not.
The problem is that independents purchase this junk, if they refused to, the motor factors would be forced to put pressure on their suppliers to supply truly 'OE quality' parts.
We are forced to source more and more parts from main dealers, as even with the higher price, it works out cheaper than the inevitable 'come-back'

Re: Lesson Learnt - Fitting aftermarket products #

Posted by Vince Mosley on March 17, 2010, 12:05 pm, in reply to "Lesson Learnt - Fitting aftermarket products #"
Vince Mosley

Hi all, i could not agree more with what has been said here. I will not fit FP items after a 2 fuel pumps for a golf gti from them were leaking from the body. Fitted a Bosch no problems.
We had the GMF rep around last week with the Febi van. Has anyone experience of their products , being a subsidiary of Bilstien the quality should be there. They claim to be OE on most german vehicles.

Dubious quality aftermarket replacement parts.

Posted by James Dillon on April 1, 2010, 6:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Lesson Learnt - Fitting aftermarket products #"

Guys,

The 'hidden costs' of using of fitting substandard parts is indeed well documented. I hear many war stories from Trade Diagnostic Customers and Techs who come on training.

The problem is what to do about it.

A few ponderables:

1) If the distributor says that its matching quality (see the statement about Bosch stickers above) but it clearly isn't, what to do? Is the standard used for matching quality the cold resistance value, surely not? Where do I as a workshop owner find the standard and check my parts against it?

2) Perhaps you could go to your trade body and complain (see comment above about trade organisations getting off their backsides and doing something about it). Well, who will you complain to? Perhaps the RMI. But they seem to be all at sea, with key people such as Mike Owen defecting to a new body, the IAAF, who are positioning themselves as the new RMI.

But hang on, wait a minute, the IAAF is essentially the ADF (motor factors make up the largest part of this bodies membership), so you'd have to ask are they really going to be interested in sorting this out, or prosecuting their own members?

Good news though, some notable industry folk, including Mr Massey (who as Mrs Massey stated earlier in the post, is vocal about the poor quality aftermarket parts) is on a garages committee of the IAAF. Phew, we may be saved after all! He can use his position to champion this cause and get the problem sorted.

3) You tell your customer that only OE parts will be used during the repair, and risk walking away from a potentially troublesome job. You have to be in full control of the job (and it's quaility) if you are going to stand behind it.

The old saying of Good, Fast, Cheap rings true once again. If it is Good and Fast, it won't be Cheap; if it is Cheap and Good, it won't be very Fast; And if it is Fast and Cheap it won't be very Good.

Cheers for now

James.

Link: Tech Topics

Re: Dubious quality aftermarket replacement parts.

Posted by Michael Whitworth on April 2, 2010, 3:03 pm, in reply to "Dubious quality aftermarket replacement parts."
Mike Whitworth - Administrator

Hi James,

>>>>The 'hidden costs' of using of fitting substandard parts is indeed well documented. I hear many war stories from Trade Diagnostic Customers and Techs who come on training.<<<<

>>>>The problem is what to do about it.<<<<

In my opinion The independent motor sector has got itself into this position by bowing to the demand for ever cheaper parts and not insisting on quality.

Too many garages are willing to fit cheap parts to either maximise their profit (charge dealer price) or surrender to customer demand for cheap parts.

The independent factors are generally only supplying what garages are demanding, so much so that often when I price parts, knowing the original is Bosch, my Bosch supplier quotes me for "Facet" or "Intermotor" I have to then ask if Bosch is available and what the cost is.

My business would actually suffer a little if all these cheap parts were to suddenly disappear because a lot of my work is re diagnosing faulty poor quality aftermarket parts.

It is very rare to get a faulty part from the dealers and if garages would insist on genuine OE quality parts which the factors could supply and not cheap imitations then this problem could be solved overnight.

Mike

ps: Is that a flying pig I see..............?

Re: Dubious quality aftermarket replacement parts.

Posted by Mark Banks on April 2, 2010, 11:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Dubious quality aftermarket replacement parts."

Interesting topic this one, Guys.

I agree with what you say Michael but as I said when asked to comment on an article about ignition in this months CAT magazine. These poor quality pattern part coils are not necessarily cheaper...

As an example Our local UKPA member motor factors have been selling Vemo coils (coil on plug) for VAG engines with a retail price £10 more than the genuine part (retail) from TPS. OK there is more of a trade discount on the pattern part but it is just not worth bothering with this junk!

Passat 2.0 @ Idle - Volts & Amps VEMO coil

Compared to

Same car at idle - Genuine VAG coil Volts & Amps

See the Amps draw of 25% less and shorter burn time on the Vemo coil...... Says it all to Me.

Regards, Mark

Re: Dubious quality aftermarket replacement parts.

Posted by James Dillon on April 3, 2010, 12:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Dubious quality aftermarket replacement parts."

Hi Mark

Technicians who have the tools/ability to make the measurement that you have, can see straight away where the problems lie. As Mike said, there is good money to be made is re-diagnosing jobs which have been 'fixed' or attempted to be fixed with suspect parts using such techniques.

The issue is imparting this information to the less well educated/experienced. I guess if you showed a waveform such as the example to the average parts rep, they may stare blankly back at you; to be fair, a 'scan and go' type garage/technician may also do the same.

The crux of the problem for many is claiming back the wasted time involved with fitting this type of part, or even just getting a credit for the part, without having to undergo weeks of waiting, and supplier 'checks & tests', which often come back as 'we couldn't find any faults - it must be your car/the ecu'; especially, when perhaps several replacements have been fitted and also failed.

A key question is who decides if a part is actually of matching quality - and how does the supplier prove their part meets this 'quality standard'? And how does the workshop easily prove that it doesn't?

I feel that as long as workshops are bearing the brunt of the cost and aggravation, and the failure/return rates for the supplier are at an acceptable level, little will change. Often with a second or third hand repair, the faulty new part just gets binned and there is no contact with the supplying motor factor.

Perhaps workshops should vote with their cash and only buy genuine? However, we need credible supply alternatives to ensure market forces come to bear and keep everyones price and, more impotantly quality, competitive.

Think back to when we had a similar problem with aftermarket Cats and p0420 DTC's. Even with the vehicle failing emissions tests and setting a trouble code (simple to understand tests, even to the layman) suppliers were initially playing hardball regarding returns of faulty new CATs.

Perhaps it's moving towards all components requiring some form certification/testing to an ISO standard or type approval?

Regards

James.

Link: Tech Topics

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