Petrol Diagnostics

Post a Response

BMW 316Ti E46 2001 Compact - Slow throttle responce - Fixed #

Posted by Michael Hill on June 23, 2009, 10:08 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2001
Engine Code or Type *: E46
( Optional ) Scanner used: launch x431

hello all,
Basicly i have this bmw 316ti 1800cc come in today, the fault is that if its idleing and you suddenly blip the throttle there is about a second delayon responce as if its holding back, then when it hits 3000rpm it sound and runs fine. the guy fitted a MAF sensor as someone told him its a common fault but did nothing. theres no mil light on, but scanned it and no codes so i looked at the o2 sensor values but i can only get readings from 2 of the sensors sensor 2 and sensor 3. sensor 2 at idle just stays around the 700mv mark but can get it to change if rev the engine, and sensor 3 stays around the 500mv mark, which i no from auto data is wrong but i stuck a new set of plugs in and it was slightly better and the o2 sensors moved more like they should but still not compleaty how they should be. next im putting a fuel filter on it as its still all genuine parts on it and there all well worn parts, so hoping thats all it is, but is there any common faults on theese i should be aware of??

sorry for the long post,
thanks in advance for reading.

regards
mike

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 23, 2009, 10:32 pm, in reply to "BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Peter Mutlow

Hi Mike,

I would want to scope the TPS on this. Maybe the track is worn which will not produce fault code. If that is ok, then I would make sure that the AFM is a genuine product and scope it to make sure. Also do you have emission reading - especially 02? Maybe running a bit lean. I assume you have checked rubber trunking for splits.

Regards

Pete M

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 23, 2009, 11:06 pm, in reply to "BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Kevin Apps

HI
I would smoke the inlet first.
kev.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle response

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 23, 2009, 11:33 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Peter Mutlow

Michael,

........and clean out the throttle body as a matter of course.

Pete M

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Keith Simpson <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1240' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 24, 2009, 6:41 am, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."

Hi Kev why can't you smoke tabacco like every one else.

Keith

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Michael Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1084' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 24, 2009, 7:57 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Michael Hills

hello again,
thanx for the replies, he put a bosch MAF sensor on it before it came to me, does anyone have the pin out for the maf sensor as i wanna test it tonight with the multimeter as im picking the scope up tomoz and the vivid data only has generic data for the MAF sensor, I have the 12v supply and the 5v supply and when reved one of the signal wires goes to max 3.88v and the other stays at around 1.4v. just i have nothing to compare it to. checked all the pipes for splits and air leaks and there isnt any.

regards mike

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 24, 2009, 8:27 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Peter Mutlow

Hi Michael,

1.4v will be Air Temp Sensor and 3.8v is fair. Need gas readings at idle especially 02. Get that throttle body cleaned - a must. MAF is better scoped to see what is going on. Then you need to scope TPS.

The clue I reckon will be with gas readings.

Regards

Pete M

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 24, 2009, 8:36 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Kevin Apps

Keith

I like that
Thanks mate.
Mike
Splits can be missed on a visual, but can be seen with smoke test. Do you have a smoke machine
if not you should get one.
Kev.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Michael Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1084' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 26, 2009, 7:48 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."

hello again,
i dont own a smoke tester and im still to get the emmisions tested but here are my scope results,

1) is of the MAF Sensor upon reving.

2) TPS KOEO

3) TPS KOER

4) HO2 Sensor at idle

5) HO2 Sensor when reved.

The HO2 sensor that i scoped is the 3rd one that has the normal 4 wires the to nearer the manifold have 6 wires and cnat get a decent reading from them. but when its been reved it goes to around 0.6-0.7v and just stays there for ages untill then slowly drops down again.

Im inclined to say the sensors buggerd but dont want to order expensive parts if there not needed.

Thanks for looking any help would be great,

regards mike

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 26, 2009, 11:55 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Peter Mutlow

Hi Michael,

Your effort in posting the scope results deserve some sort of response. So here goes. I don't own a smoke tester but I find easy start or carb cleaner squirted carefully over the suspect area works for me. I am not familiar with the scope you are using but MaF looks ok although you have a double image. Perhaps you blipped twice. HO2 sensor at idle looks lazy but OK when revved. Not sure what KOER is but I assume looking at the trace you have blipped the throttle which has produced a small glitch on throttle opening. This could be a sampling error but not to be discounted. Throttle body and throttle plate clean is a must. Worked for me a few times. Emission figures will be interesting which can rule out/in various faults.

Regards

Pete M

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Michael Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1084' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 10:53 am, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Michael Hills

hi all,
thanx for the reply pete, iv cleaned the throttle body, gone all over the inlet and rocker cover, dipstick with carb cleaner to no affect, cleaed all adaptions, still nothing, iv read alot about the PCV Valve but i dont even no what it looks like or were it is.

This car is really starting to get on my nerves.

Im still inclined to put the o2 sensor on as its just not good enough wave form and if its lazy then then that can cause the problems thats occuring.

advice needed!

thanx mike!

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 3:07 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."

Mike
Can we clear a few things up
What engine is this 1600 or 1800 ?? ie is it really a ti
The o2 sensor you are scoping is that a post cat sensor.
some mention of six wire o2,s ? pre cat ? i think they may be 5 wire but will check when we know the exact engine. can you post the last 2 letter and 5 numbers of the chassis.
Pete.
KOER
i suspect means Key On Engine Running.
And you would be surpised how good a smoke machine is, much, much better than using sprays and you can even test PCV,s more of which when we know the exact engine

Kev.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Michael Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1084' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 4:20 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Michael Hills

Hello kevin,
Spoke to the customer and it is Def 1800cc and def a ti,

im pretty sure it was a 6 wire pre CAT x2 and then a 4 wire pre CAT (that was the one i scoped).

KOER = Key on engine running.

Here are the last 7 from the chassis num.

FU52767

Regards
mike.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Michael Whitworth <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5568' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 7:02 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."

FU52767.. E46 316ti compact..... 2002.... N42.. Manual, 1800cc

Mike

M.O.M. Miserable Old Manc

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 7:36 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Kevin Apps

Hi Mike (Mr. Whitworth)

Mike Hill
I have not looked up any any info YET,but 3 pre-cat lambda,s ??
Kev

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 8:19 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Peter Mutlow

Hi Michael,

Must admit can never remember seeing a "small" BMW with such a multitude of Lambda Sensors and with 5/6 wires attached. Obviously passed me by. However, I am not convinced the problem lies with the Lambda sensor - yet. The problem with scoping I find is that to get a true picture you need to scope the suspect sensor a number of times to eliminate sample error. Try this: Go to TPS and find signal wire and expect approx .6 to.8 volts. With ignition on slowly open throttle and watch increase of voltage on digital voltmeter. You need to be concerned only up to about 2v. Any drop back during increase confirms faulty TPS. I assume such basics as plugs and leads have been checked ok. Also, tell us where you are as I am sure someone nearby will do a 4 gas check for you. Friendly MOT station? Those readings are really essential.

Regards

Pete M

NB. Kev yes you are right about the smoke machine. Have seen one in action and it is the bees knees. However...if you are not lucky to have one then a good sqirt here and there can do the trick in most cases. Its not what you got..but how you use it

. Regards

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 8:44 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Peter Mutlow

Hi all

According to my AD disc this has 4 Lambda sensors. It has an accelerator pedal sensor and throttle motor but no TPS. Also has two cam sensors and two camshaft position actuators.
Complicated piece of kit for an old beamer.

Pete M

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2009, 10:09 pm, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."

Mike
Just looked on Vivid (easier that BMW TIS) and Vivid shows 2 six wire pre-cat lambda,s and 2 four wire post cat lambda,s.
Perhaps it would have been a good idea to have got Vivid while it was on offer.
GOOD info is KING.

Kev.
ps if the O2 sensor you are scopeing is post cat then emmision,s reading are vital (as usual) as i,m sure it will fail an MOT at idle.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Michael Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1084' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2009, 7:07 am, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Michael Hills

hello kevin,
iv got vivid demo and have been on there constantly, looking under the car there are 2 6 wire lamdas on the to sprate exhaust pipes before it joins to 1 exahust to join to the cat, asthe 2 pipe join to 1 there is another 4 wire lamda there and the the cat then there another 4 wire lamda after the cat!

Also no 1 has answered about this PCV Valve, how can i test it? some peopel say if you can blow through it then it nakerd is this correct? as i can blow through it from every pipe with absolutly no resistance, and theres oil getting in to the inlet manifold.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2009, 10:15 am, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Kevin Apps

Mike
Re-new pcv if you can blow and SUCK through it, it,s not a valve

it, a tube

Kev.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by mike hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1084' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2009, 10:19 am, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Michael Hills

hello,
here is a pic of the exhaust system thats on the car, from the parts pic it shoud either have 2 small cats on the manifold or 1 big one were they normally are, but this car here has all three cats, thats whey im saying it has 3 pre cat sensors and 1 post cat sensor.

hope this makes sense.

thanx mike!

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2009, 10:50 am, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Kevin Apps

Mike
As i suspected,SO you have 2 wide band lambda,s in the down pipes then 2 cats, then a four wire lambda (post cat) then the main cat and then a final post cat lambda.
See above post ref; PCV.
Kev.

Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow.

Posted by mike hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1084' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2009, 11:21 am, in reply to "Re: BMW 316ti E46 1800cc compact, throttle responce slow."
Michael Hills

hello kevin,
yea sorry didnt understand you earlier, id still call that a pre cat sensor as its still before the main cat. iv taken off the pcv valve and can suck and blow straight through all the pipes, got one on order for monday. praying this fixes its as its really doing my head in now!

will let you know how i get on one fitted.

thanx for all the help,

mike

Fixed #

Posted by Michael Hill on July 8, 2009, 8:13 pm, in reply to "BMW 316Ti E46 2001 Compact - Slow throttle responce #"
Message modified by board administrator July 9, 2009, 2:33 pm

hello all,
thankyou for all your input.

i removed the ccv valve and tested it and it blew straight through, and so did the new 1, but £40 was cheaper than the o2 sensors, replaced the inlet gaskets and fired it up and it worked car reved and pulled away like it should!!

again thankyou all for your help!
sorry for the delay in posting had a very long stag do!!

regards mike!

« Back to index

[ Petrol Diagnostics ]