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Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Paul Goswell on January 13, 2011, 9:20 am

Year of Manufacture *: 03
Engine Size and Code *: 1.4z14xe
( Optional ) Scanner Used: solus pro
( Optional) Fault Codes: p1120 p1122

Hi

I have this vehicle coming in tommorrow its lost its 5v feed on the second sensor. I have read in the archives that you can repair by joining wires from 1st sensor 5v feed. Can any one tell me if you do this at the pedal end or at the ecu

Thanks

Paul

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Jim Watson <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5178' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 13, 2011, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"

Hi Paul, the last time I did it at the pedal, not too bad a job really, Jim.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 13, 2011, 8:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Apps

Paul and Jim
That should only ever be done as a test, it,s not a repair.
Kev.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 # fix

Posted by paul goswell <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5240' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 15, 2011, 1:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Paul Goswell

i had to fix it by joining the wires but the guy had no money and could not afford new ecu the car was a bit of a wreck so it got him out of trouble for now thanks for your help

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 # fix

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 15, 2011, 2:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 # fix"
Kevin Apps

Paul
You are meant to be a professional, so you carry out professional repairs and if the customer can,t afford it send him on his way.
He could not afford the ECU but most likely left with his bodged up car, went in the bookies,then on to the pub to have a skinfull and buy some ciggies.
Kev.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Francks <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5232' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 15, 2011, 7:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Francks

Hello Kev.

I would love to know how you came to your conclusion about Paul’s customer i.e. Bookies / Pub / Ciggies, it could be that he has just lost his job and has a young family to taxi around and needs some time to get the funds together for a professional repair as you like to call it.

Kevin.

PS Good on you Paul.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Steve Harrison <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1363' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 15, 2011, 7:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Stephen Harrison

Kevin is absolutely right.

Paul, Jim and Kevin perhaps you could give some consideration as to the reasons why there are multiple monitored outputs on the pedal / throttle housing.

Fine for testing but not a permanent, professional fix by a long shot.

Steve

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 15, 2011, 8:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Apps

Kevin Francks
By Pauls admission the car is a wreck, so lets pray he does not ferry he,s kids around in it.
The point is a Bodge which this is, is not a professional repair.
Kev.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 15, 2011, 9:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Peter Mutlow

Evening,

Sticking my head above the parapet I am with Paul and Kevin F. I would have done the same thing but made the customer aware that it is not a proper repair. I see nothing wrong with helping the customer out if I can.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 16, 2011, 12:42 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Apps

Pete.
If it was a genuine regular customer that had money troubles i would help and do the as cheap as possible or fiance the job myself , but again by Paul,s admission the car is a wreck.
Our job is not to keep wrecks on the road, or if it is

no wonder the motor trade has a bad name.
Kev.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Darren Cotton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1876' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 16, 2011, 9:32 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Darren Cotton

This debate has been brought up before and it's interesting people's different opinions.

The repair that has been made is NOT right in my opinion.

Why would you put your reputation at risk?

We all try and help the customer with his problem, but in this case he could not afford it, so he should have been charged for the diagnosis and sent on his way until he can afford it.

This is my opinion and I agree with Kevin Apps.

Darren

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by paul goswell <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5240' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 16, 2011, 1:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Paul Goswell

i wish i hadnt bothered

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 3:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Peter Warman - Administrator

Hi Paul

I am glad you did post, right or wrong it's always good to have a debate. This will help other members make a more informed choice of repair if they have the same fault in the future

Peter

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by paul goswell <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5240' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 5:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Paul Goswell

thanks peter i did not want to stir up a hornets nest, but i cannot see what adding a new 5v feed to the sensor could be a bodge if it picks up its feed from the same place in the ecu as sensor 1, surely its no different to running a new wire through a loom that has a broken wire were its quicker and easier than stripping all the loom back or even a broken earth lead or wire thanks paul

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Mark Mcgrath <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2806' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 5:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Mark McGrath

both sensors dont get there feed from same pin on ecu as far as i know
vauxhall state the two feeds are for safety and cross checking

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 6:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Peter Warman - Administrator

Hi Paul

You are not stirring up a hornets nest, I will try and explain why you are getting some negative comments

The throttle pedal is made up of two potentiometers ie: sensor 1 and sensor 2. Each one has its own 5v supply from the ECU

For safety reasons when you put your foot on the throttle pedal the voltage rises on one side of the sensor and drops on the other, if they are rising and falling evenly on both sides, then the ECU knows the sensor (pedal) is working correctly.

You lost 5v on one side, so the ECU flags a code and it goes into limp because the throttle is not working correctly

Now your sensor has only one 5v feed, so if that is lost the vehicle could either stop dead or speed up on the motorway, at least with limp mode you have some control

Another example say: If you had a vehicle with two front electric brakes, both with a separate 5v feed, if one feed is lost you will still have one brake working to stop. If you join both 5v feeds together, then if that one feed is lost you will have no brakes at all

HTH

Peter

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by paul goswell <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5240' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 6:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Paul Goswell

ok peter thanks for explaining how it works i can know see your point thanks paul

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 6:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Apps

Paul
Just to continue the debate!!
Now it has been explained to you, would you do it again ?
Kev.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 9:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Peter Mutlow

Evening All,

....well I certainly wouldn't

. Shame this wasn't properly explained from the outset....

Regards

Pete M

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Francks <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5232' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 9:39 pm, in reply to "Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Francks

Kev.

I replied to your post to Paul not to dispute the ethics of the repair but to challenge your aggressive posting tactics that seem to be on the increase and not just on this forum.

If you had replied to Paul’s post as Peter did in a friendly and informative way giving the details of the system (as I have no doubt you are fully aware of) it would have made the thread a lot more interesting and professional.

Kevin.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 17, 2011, 11:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Apps

Kevin and Pete
The info as to why this was only for test purposes (re my first post)should be common knowledge to any-one in the trade, and as Darren has stated it has been here discussed before.
Also if Paul had come back and asked why it should not be considered as a repair i could have explained.

Kev.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by paul goswell <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5240' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 18, 2011, 8:13 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Paul Goswell

thanks kevin francks for that as with all things motor trade we cant be expected to know every system on every car and no i would not do that type of repair again regards paul

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 18, 2011, 6:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Kevin Apps

Paul.
"as with all things motor trade we cant be expected to know every system on every car"

Perhaps this is where you and i differ,i only work on a system if i understand it, how else would i know i,m repairing it and not making things worse.
Kev

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 18, 2011, 8:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Bryan Smith

"i only work on a system if i understand it, how else would i know i,m repairing it and not making things worse."

Must be where I'm going wrong with the better half!

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 20, 2011, 11:40 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"

""" Paul.
"as with all things motor trade we cant be expected to know every system on every car"

Perhaps this is where you and i differ,i only work on a system if i understand it, how else would i know i,m repairing it and not making things worse.

Kev """

Hi Kev
I understand your keenness to see an improvement in the way we go about diagnosing & repairing vehicles, but I don't think that it's quite as black & white as that me ole fruit.

I spend a lot of time learning how a system works & often this learning is done whilst trying to fix a fault. We all have to balance the Learning/Earning Ratio (LER

) & I try to make sure that the customer doesn’t pay too much for my inexperience with a particular fault.

If we were aerospace technicians, we would not be allowed to work on anything that we were not fully trained & equipped to do so. We would also have accurate test & service data to work with too. The motor trade is miles away from that level of professionalism though & I think we have to accept that it is impractical to expect everyone to be fully conversant with every technology that comes through the door.

In an ideal world there would be no head scratching, only methodical & structured test/repair routines. I am sure that if you are honest Kev (& I know you are), then you will admit that you don’t fully understand every system that you are tackling. Even the guys at the top of their game have to “learn as they go” at some point.

We are all “blagging it” to some degree, some just more than others!

Cheers all

Dave

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Mick Gormley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5597' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 20, 2011, 1:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Mick Gormley

Dave you've saved me a post i couldn't have put it better myself.

Cheers Mick.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 20, 2011, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Bryan Smith

Dave,
I was going to post again with similar comments but as Mick put it, you saved me the trouble!
One of the reasons I am in this trade is because I enjoy finding out how things are supposed to work when they don't, but I am also subject to LER as you put it.
Continuing on the original subject. Are there any other 5v feeds (or 12v with a resistor) that could be used with the same effect as the original circuit? As I understand it Kevin's objection is because both sensors are on the same feed?
Regards, Bryan.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by roy ritchie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5115' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 21, 2011, 6:50 pm, in reply to "Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"

Ive been watching this thread and agree that sharing a 5v on a throttle pedal is a bodge but if its a budget repair and customer know it may fail and not limp home,After saying that any car can stop on the road at any time for any reason,Also can i add why do renault use this setup on clio 1.2 16v throttle body? http://img197.imageshack.us/i/cliothrottle.png/ If 5v or earth goes on this it wont limp home.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 21, 2011, 6:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"

Hi Dave.
First off i hope you, Paula and the family are all OK.
As you know i,m am dylexic,so some of my bluntness stems from this. I wish i could post eloquently like you but that would take far too long.
As for only working on system i understand, that is pretty much true, fully understanding them, well that may be not so true

.
Also as you know i,m an old git

, so my need to earn is most likely less than most , so my learning time of late has increased, but i have always tried to learn as much as possible that is why i have every technical bulletin Peter Coombs has produced, most of James Dillon's work etc.
Plus i never mind going on the many pay to view manufacturer,s info system,s.
As for me being HONEST

i do try but it is too easy to stray

but the above is pretty much true.
All the very best MATE
and give Paula a kiss from me

Kev

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 21, 2011, 7:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"

Hi Roy

OK......so imagine this scenario, you only have say one potentiometer (or two joined

) with a 5v feed, if this gets a short on the signal side from another 5v feed in the loom, then the ECU may see a wide open throttle signal and the car may accelerate away

If it has a second potentiometer that it has to compare with then if the voltage rises unexpectedly on one side for safety reasons it will go into limp, its probably the only sensor on the car that has this safety feature built in and rightly so, so should not really be abused

Same with your throttle body

Its probably for all these reasons that no manufacturer has developed an all electronic braking system in case 10 years down the line an unsuspecting technicians joins up the 5v feeds to put the MIL out

Peter

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Roy Ritchie on January 21, 2011, 7:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Message modified by board administrator January 24, 2011, 4:39 pm

(If it has a second potentiometer that it has to compare with then if the voltage rises unexpectedly on one side for safety reasons it will go into limp)Yes i see what your saying but thats why thats why one track is 2v w.o.t. and other is 4.1 w.o.t. I Can see the 5v regulator may go faulty and send both up (chance in a million)but then again lets go old school what did we do with old throttle cables sticking,I think theres a lot of ifs and but with this one but cant see the ecu not going into limp if the 5v regulator did go mad.

Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 21, 2011, 9:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Z14XE 2003 - Codes P1120 & P1122 #"
Bryan Smith

I currently have in a golf (BCA, Bosch Motronic 10.1.7 I think) which has the exact same wiring as the Renault in Roy's post. Both the potentiometer signals were absent and on taking the body apart I found both terminals, 2 & 6 corroded/broken at the circuit board (I don't know if the customer had been driving around with one gone or they both went together as other "tech's" had already had a look). This vehicle runs perfectly ok but revs seem to be limited to about 2K which is virtually undriveable. I know that as this is not quite the same fault that is being discussed but thought I would let you know what happens in this scenario. New body being delivered on Mon at £340 + the dreaded

.
Regards, Bryan

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