Re: And productivity really isn't a problem. Both forest-permaculture and urban ag. can OUTPERFORM Archived Message Posted by John Monro on February 23, 2019, 6:40 pm, in reply to "And productivity really isn't a problem. Both forest-permaculture and urban ag. can OUTPERFORM " Thanks for this info, Rhisiart, I'd not heard of forest gardening previously. However idyllic and natural it looks, I'd really have to query if such a system, replicated throughout Europe, would be sufficient to feed well and healthily the 300 million people, most of who live in urban areas in very dense masses. This is low output agriculture. Having said that, however, I do agree that the present way we conduct our agriculture is unsustainable, it is damaging, perhaps fatally, the local ecology, and damaging the health of the citizens I do see organic farming and permaculture principles though as a necessity, The yields of organic farming are not as high as industrial agriculture, so the 300 million citizens of Europe will have to accept less meat and diary in their diet, and why not? Some areas of forest gardening could be part of the mix, where appropriate. The loss of biodiversity is truly frightening, insects, birds, mammals, soil organism etc and cannot continue. I would like to see a forward looking government fund, to the tune of several tens of million pounds or euros, a large area of traditionally farmed and inhabited land, perhaps an area with a diameter of 20- 30 km, (it needs to be large enough so that the major part is not subject to the damage inflicted at the periphery) to be converted to organic farming, banning pesticides in farms and gardens, restoring natural features, and study this area intensively for 10 years. I think the improvement in wild life, soil, garden, water quality and sheer beauty would be truly dramatic and that the productivity of this land will not be markedly decreased except what it does produce can be continued in perpetuity. Such an agriculture will not just return wild life to its rightful place, but because it will require more manual labour and input, will return people to their rightful place as an integral part of the landscape. Message Thread: Europe can go organic - mack February 23, 2019, 2:01 am And productivity really isn't a problem. Both forest-permaculture and urban ag. can OUTPERFORM - Rhisiart Gwilym February 23, 2019, 8:40 am Re: And productivity really isn't a problem. Both forest-permaculture and urban ag. can OUTPERFORM - John Monro February 23, 2019, 6:40 pm Where do you get the idea that it's less productive, John? Not what the veteran, highly-skilled - Rhisiart Gwilym February 23, 2019, 9:51 pm Re: And productivity really isn't a problem. Both forest-permaculture and urban ag. can OUTPERFORM - mack February 24, 2019, 4:27 am Really interesting link. Thanks for posting. nm - Bluefool February 25, 2019, 9:37 am   Searching