Ian: add into the pondering that key moment that Chris Hedges describes so vividly, because he was Archived Message Posted by Rhisiart Gwilym on February 24, 2019, 8:51 am, in reply to "Re: @ Ian M: Re your thread of yesterday, Ian (link below). Can't actually find much of JPie's rants to" there watching it happen in several cases. This is when a critical mass of the state's professional thugs, both police and military, come to the point where they refuse to oppress and suppress the uprising plebs, and instead begin to fraternise and support them. That's usually the key to removing some pol-gang who've lost public loyalty. Bye the bye, I reckon that France is quite close to that point right now... The pros and cons of state forces is a tricky subject. Naturally, I'd much sooner see community management of disagreement and anti-social behaviour. But, as you so rightly say, long-lived organically-grown traditional communities have been seriously wrecked in most over-rich countries; I know, I've watched it happening in my life-time. And now we're in an interim time where descents into gang-rule and outright warlordism are - jn JMGreer's cyclical-historian's reckoning - likely to experience one of their periodic upswings, as usual in historically-disturbed times, especially times of decreasing prosperity. I wish I believed that anarchical self-government was feasible in mass societies going through such upheavals; I'd much prefer that we should do things in that ancient, instinctually-programmed way. But - alas! - what comes absolutely naturally and automatically amongst gatherer-hunter bands just doesn't seem to transpose to mass, class-divided societies, especially when under stress. In this time, the best prospect that I can see for a relatively humane passage, for some of us at least, through this now-begun era of the Long Descent is scarcity socialism. But inevitably, to see that happen, we have to have some degree of secure government organising things. And the non-negotiable requirement for that to happen, especially for keeping the prowling war-band thug-forcss at bay, both the exterior and the interior ones, is the usual enforced state monopoly on organised, professional violence. It's a bastard, innit? Message Thread: @ Ian M: Re your thread of yesterday, Ian (link below). Can't actually find much of JPie's rants to - Rhisiart Gwilym February 22, 2019, 9:33 pm Re: @ Ian M: Re your thread of yesterday, Ian (link below). Can't actually find much of JPie's rants to - Ian M February 23, 2019, 11:02 pm Ian: add into the pondering that key moment that Chris Hedges describes so vividly, because he was - Rhisiart Gwilym February 24, 2019, 8:51 am Re: Ian: add into the pondering that key moment that Chris Hedges describes so vividly, because he was - Tomski February 25, 2019, 12:32 am Re: Ian: add into the pondering that key moment that Chris Hedges describes so vividly, because he was - Ian M February 25, 2019, 11:35 am   Searching