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Mandelson dropped as chancellor by Manchester Metropolitan University

Posted by scrabb <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=scrabb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2025, 6:09 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0q71g2y4d8o

Not before time. Next he should lose his peerage -- including perks and cash -- and get booted out of the Lords.

Manchester Poly?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 12, 2025, 7:19 pm, in reply to "Mandelson dropped as chancellor by Manchester Metropolitan University"

As was

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 1:11 am, in reply to "Manchester Poly?"

Ain't Oxbridge or Russel group. And with singular aim of getting students on the payroll.

Manchester. Redbrick above its paygrade, in accordance with septic saying.

Just experienced the tussle in this system with my son, who got ABB instead of AAB. Zany.

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 8:20 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Did they still take him?

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 1:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

For Southampton Uni, he needed AAB, but since he didn't get it, they offered him Sports Medicine for his ABB (something he originally wanted to do).

So it was Plymouth Uni instead. At least he gets a 5K grant (yearly) from NHS because it is Physiotherapy. I guess NHS can use him as soon as he graduates.

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 3:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I went to Marjons in Plymouth in 1983 that did the humanities degree having applied to Plymouth Poly originally. I used to swipe the bog paper from the Student uni bog after I graduated. ;O) Good luck to the lad, glad that it's turned out all right.

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 3:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I remember Marjons well, and the rollercoaster ride to get there.
I was there for about five months I think, doing humanities...my first foray into philosophy with some very religious guy as a tutor.
Girlfriend problems and complications scuppered Marjons for me though and it didn't work out and moved oop north the following year to continue my studies.
I remember a lot of weird names from that area...our lodgings were in Mutley Plain, walking distance to the town centre.
I never liked the navy/squaddie vibe of the place.

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 4:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

How interesting both of you went there. At least Sasha will be residential there for the first year, which, of course, he still has to pay for. I still remember in my days that, in essence, my education/residence was free. In my hols worked on building sites and as a driller etc.

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 5:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I think Keith and myself were at Marjons around the same same time...I think 81 or 82 for me.
I got the full grant as it was then.
I wouldn't have gone with today's scandalous student loan bollox.
Your son start this October I presume? Good luck to him and hope he does well with the Physio courses...never can have enough physios with all us old fogies around!
I had to have some physio last year from the NHS...bloody brilliant she was...hadn't laughed so much in ages!

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 5:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I started in 1983 but you might remember Steve Rushin, who went to the same school as me during the VIth Form and started in 1980 then left early and trained as a nurse. He turned into a bit of a twat I'm afraid.

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 5:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Oh, I got a full grant too. I worked out that it was worth more per week than the full-time job I'd had at Mansfield Hosiery Mills. I OD'd (overdrafted) pretty quickly though. ;O)

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 5:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Your son start this October I presume?

He moved into residence 3 pm today. Just showed me his room etc. Nice, better than mine was in '72. Shower, toilet etc. in the room. No doubt he will be in the gym soon pumping iron or similar.

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 13, 2025, 5:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I lived beyond Mutley, on Thornhill Road off Crownhill Road to the north and then in Peverell Park Road after graduating. I met a few people who were having another go with a clean emotional slate, they did all right. Some of the people I knew were doing the religion and philosophy module but that stuff left me cold. I concentrated on History with Lit as my recreational subject.

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 12:00 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Some of the people I knew were doing the religion and philosophy module but that stuff left me cold. I concentrated on History with Lit as my recreational subject.

I used to fume when the humanities guy opposite me had endless parties whilst I was taking care of my serious computer programming in the middle of the night.

BA and BSc are two different animals. Long hair git .. grr. Only kiddin', he was younger than mua and couldn't help 'imself. Amateurs hehe .. the reasoning being that I could learn his stuff just by reading, if interested (which I was). Perhaps an unpopular view. I do read!

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 2:13 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

In later years, after becoming a minor adept in the old philosophy game, it was fun to fuck with science geeks with a bit of Philosophy of Science.

Bondi's "Assumption and Myth in Physical Theory" was a good primer for that...they didn't like it up 'em after just receiving their shiney new BSc degrees!

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 11:12 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Relativity speaking ;O)

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 8:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Assumption and Myth in Physical Theory book looks somewhat hifulting. Also, sounds a bit like an Athenian talking point : ). Anyways, the Romans used the Greeks as teachers of their kids but nevertheless got on and built bridges, if you get my drift.

Apols for ranting on about humanities, but at the time (ahem '72) I was really sweating over an engineering problem and the dichotomy between science (or to be more precise, engineering, in my case) was exemplified by my humanities neighbour in residence having a party at the same time as me tearing my hair out. He got 2/1 btw. Sorry to say, the resentment stayed with me. I am still working on it

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 8:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I get your drift...reminds me of one of the great philosophers or the modern age (the name escapes me...couldn't have been that great if I forgot it, I hear you say lol), who opined that sometimes he would sit cogitating and almost think the world and everything in it (including himself) out of existence until he'd have to get back to "reality", get up make himself a nice cup of tea!

However, taking science and practically any subject back to it's foundations and the inevitable assumptions from which it proceeds has always fascinated me...something those "Athenian talking pointers" were adept at with their Socratic dialectics.

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 9:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

However, taking science and practically any subject back to it's foundations and the inevitable assumptions from which it proceeds has always fascinated me...something those "Athenian talking pointers" were adept at with their Socratic dialectics.

Perhaps Socrates had some impact : ). But seriously, take Pythagoras, imv perhaps more important as far as maths (and science) goes. He was almost 70 years before Socrates and was from Samos island. Whatever.

And still, still, we don't recognise the impact of the Indus and Egyptian components that fed those intellects.

One could go on

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 9:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I suppose I mention Socrates because he was so important in developing maybe the first system of critical thinking.
There is no doubt that great thinkers existed before him, Pythagoras as you mention for example, but we are into the realm of maths here and not science with its emphasis on empirical data from observation etc.
I'm talking about a systematic methodology for arriving at conclusions...that dialectic model is very much part of modern science too...the whole Hypothesis/Antithesis/Thesis thing.
Popper's whole science and falsification ideas are pretty much a direct descendent of the Socratic method.
Of course, Eastern philosophy is a whole different ball game but its a little too metaphysical for me.

By the way, are you familiar with Zeno of Elea and his paradoxes...a contemporary of Socrates as it happens?
They can be fun and a great example of the dichotomy between the world of thought and the physical world...whatever that actually is, some real strange ideas about that now we are fully immersed in this digital/quantum stuff.
Too late in life for me to get into all that...I'm more at home with my Hume, Kant, Spinoza and the rest of the oldies from that Monty Python song!

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 14, 2025, 11:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

There is no doubt that great thinkers existed before him, Pythagoras as you mention for example, but we are into the realm of maths here and not science with its emphasis on empirical data from observation etc.

Pythagoras made a direct observation regarding physical facts i.e. using empirical data:

A simple proof of the Pythagorean theorem involves rearranging four identical right triangles around a square formed by the hypotenuse. The area of the larger square (formed by the hypotenuse) equals the sum of the areas of the smaller squares (formed by the other two sides), leading to the equation a^2+b^2=c^2

But don't worry, I do get your point about dialectics and the fact that it thankfully ended up with Marx for a spell, if you see what I mean

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 15, 2025, 12:11 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Maths and in this case geometry (I have always enjoyed it) is not empirical in the way science is...i.e.knowledge acquired by sense data, observation and experimentation...scientific knowledge in this sense is a posteriori.
Mathematical knowledge on the other hand is pretty much all a priori...things are proved to exist before any empirical observation...by pure thought.
Mathematics proceeds from axioms, those famous old self evident truths...now that's where the fun really begins with the philosophy of mathematics...why are these self evident truths self evident? But that is getting us into epistemology and the likes of Descartes and Russell.
In any case, mathematics is really the study of mathematics, not reality as we perceive it but of course, mathematics can be applied to the world as I believe you actually do...architecture is your field, yes?
Hard to do these subjects justice in short paragraphs, no?

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 15, 2025, 8:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

You said:
Mathematical knowledge on the other hand is pretty much all a priori...things are proved to exist before any empirical observation...by pure thought.

Not quite .. and after thinking about it (ish) for a spell, it came to me .. the common empirical reference is measurement, in most cases. Geometry does not exclusively compare like with like and categorise, but may also involve measurement. Hence Pythagoras theorem based on measurement is in the same stable, so to speak.

Measurement is considered an empirical act because it involves the systematic observation and quantification of attributes of objects or events, allowing for comparisons based on collected data. This process relies on empirical evidence rather than theoretical assumptions.

I agree w/AI in this case ..

Re: Manchester Poly?: In other words, discuss or get off the pot : ))

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 16, 2025, 12:54 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Let's see that shiny MA Phil in action hehe

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 16, 2025, 2:21 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

I am not sure if we are "arguing" at cross purposes here and are stretching the term "empirical" a tad too far.
Sticking with the Pythagorean Theorem, it is first and foremost derived from axioms and geometric proofs. Being Euclidean, it was not discovered by physical observations or experimentation.
All Euclidean right angled triangles have the same properties i.e. the prediction that Pythagoras Theorem makes about them holds true in all cases.
It is not like the measurable physical phenomena such as those observed in say, astronomy or biology, because these phenomena are not necessarily fixed and immutable.
(Think of inductive reasoning and Popper's Falsification of Science theory here).
The properties of right angled triangles on the other hand are fixed and immutable...they have abstract mathematical relationships and constructs that do not change.
Now, of course, we can make or draw right angled triangles and use these physical objects to demonstrate the veracity of the theorem, with physical measurements and observation but that would just be redundant anyway because we already have the theorem which works in all cases.

I should make it plain that I am not making any epistemological value judgements on empiricism v rationalism, here.

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 16, 2025, 2:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Now, of course, we can make or draw right angled triangles and use these physical objects to demonstrate the veracity of the theorem, with physical measurements and observation but that would just be redundant anyway because we already have the theorem which works in all cases.

Practically speaking, the way I draw a right angle triangle is by measurement. Same thing with parallel lines.

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2025, 4:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Thinking about Parthenon in Acropolis c 447 BC:

Architectural Features
*The Parthenon is renowned for its perfect proportions and the use of the golden ratio.

*It features 46 outer columns and 19 inner columns, all slightly tapered for visual effect.

*The structure contains no straight lines or right angles, showcasing advanced architectural techniques.

Pure thought? .. or measurement?

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2025, 5:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

The Golden Ratio is a prime example of an abstract mathematical concept.
It has its very own mathematical formula.
Now, of course, when it is put into use for practical purposes, those architects and builders are going to use measurement as one of their most important tools.

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2025, 9:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Hey t, what about this then...just found this out!
Crazy sort of coincidence considering this thread eh, although we missed it!

Forget Pi Day. Today is Pythagorean Triple Square Day.
September 16, 2025 holds extra special mathematical significance.

Pi Day (March 14) is a day of global mathematical celebration, but it’s not the only numerically significant calendar date. It’s far from the rarest, either. In fact, today marks a special occasion that only occurs once this century. Not only is each number in today’s date (9/16/25) a perfect square—their consecutive square roots are also an example of a Pythagorean triple. While an official name has yet to be assigned, “Pythagorean Triple Square Day” encapsulates the moment pretty perfectly.

Here’s the specific math to add it all up: 3 multiplied by itself is 9, 4 squared is 16, and 5 squared is 2025. On top of that, the sum of the first two square roots adds up to 25.

“This date is hiding one of the most beautiful coincidences we will ever encounter,” Terrence Blackman, head of mathematics at Medgar Evers College in the City University of New York, told NPR. “Those numbers, they tell a story that goes back to ancient Greece.”

To be fair, the story actually goes even further back than that. Pythagoras (c. 570—c. 495 BCE) is most famously credited as the first mathematician to discover his namesake theorem. To jog those scary memories of high school math, the Pythagorean Theorem states that in a right-angled triangle, the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares of the two other sides.

However, both ancient Babylonian and Indian theorists had known the same information for centuries. Additional accounts also ascribe him as being one of the first Greek thinkers to teach that the world was spherical, although that credit is more likely owed to Parmenides.

But regardless of authorship, the Pythagorean Theorem helped revolutionize modern concepts in math, geometry, architecture, music, and numerous other fields. The next Pythagorean Triple Square Day won’t take place for quite some time. However, to make things extra special, today’s date possesses its own mathematical elegance: just type 45 squared into a calculator to find out why.

https://www.popsci.com/science/what-is-pythagorean-triple-day/

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

Special occasion that only occurs once a century: Nice one Ed ..

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2025, 11:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Every day is an occasion for me, but in this case, it does appear as though we missed a significant marker. You probably realise that we were arguing apples and oranges. You as a philosopher and me as an engineer.

I am also glad that this was cited in that article:

However, both ancient Babylonian and Indian theorists had known the same information for centuries.

Left out the Egyptians ffs, but that is OK (eyes roll).

In addition, Pythagoras was a mystic fwiw as per my AI:

Pythagoras believed that music and mathematics are deeply connected, with musical harmony arising from specific numerical ratios, particularly those related to string lengths. His ideas laid the foundation for understanding musical scales and tuning systems, influencing music theory for centuries.

I haven't investigated that notion deeply but could possibly concede there may be some truth to it. Think guitar ..

Re: Special occasion that only occurs once a century: Nice one Ed ..

Posted by Ed <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ed' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 17, 2025, 11:38 pm, in reply to "Special occasion that only occurs once a century: Nice one Ed .."

Ah, "The Music Of The Spheres"!
I'm sure you've come across that epithet before.
The old philosophical/mathematical notion that heavenly bodies have a harmonic/musical relationship as they traverse their orbits.
Popular right up to the 17th century...less so after that.
Only problem is, humans can't hear it!

"I won't dignify the attacker's words by repeating them, they are horrific and vile."

A step too far on reflection : ))

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 18, 2025, 1:45 am, in reply to "Re: Special occasion that only occurs once a century: Nice one Ed .."

Re: Manchester Poly?

Posted by Shyaku <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Shyaku' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 15, 2025, 5:51 am, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

Gotta live these humanities types who try futilely to put several thousand years of science in a box and label it as a subdiscipline of social science or humanities … while simultaneously needing a bit of physio or modern medicine or internet.

At least RhG had the cohones to die for his beliefs.

- Shyaku

Fnar! : )

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on September 20, 2025, 7:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Manchester Poly?"

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