Thanks for the advice guys much appreciated phill I have started to use the off the ground cast not game enough to even attempt the pendulum cast so I do put a fair amount of force into the rod but not as much as what the pendulum does the 5oz only goes on when fishing the west coast if a 4oz is not holding very well. Widegap that is the exact sort of thing I do not want happening which is one of the key reasons I asked here to put my mind at ease as what someone says to get a sale out of you can sometimes turn out to be the wrong advice. Just like I have seen shop staff conning inexperienced shooters into buying big magnum centerfires for thier first hunting rifle which is a big no no in my books.

Neil you mentioned two of my biggest pet hates sinkers hitting rods, and rods hitting the ground from falling over or being dropped, as it is I get pretty peeved off if my reels so much as even touch the sand (yes I get very anal about how my gear is treated)even during transport and at home my surfcasters are in rod tubes that came with them and are cleaned in warm water with a hand held shower and soap after every fishing trip.