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Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/6/2013, 7:59 pm

FYI

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890672

Just snapper one or will it be everywhere?
And what sacrifices will the commercials make?

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/6/2013, 8:45 pm, in reply to "Snapper Cuts On the Table"

This will be a story to follow with interest. My take on helping fish stocks to grow would be to follow Fish and Game in their efforts to promote fish numbers. On waters that are under pressure, introduce an upper size limit and put the big fish back. This has been a great success on waters such as Lake Tarawera and is widely supported by trout anglers.

Large snapper, just like large trout, are not the best for culinary purposes. To go to the minister with the suggestion of an upper size limit but leave the nine fish limit in place, could be well received. Those large fish are the better breeding stock, and such a concession could show once more anglers are willing to do their bit.

Anglers can record their large fish successes with a camera and tape measure. It's the story and the picture that give by far the greatest pleasure, far better than any fillet taken from an old horse.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 15/6/2013, 8:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

An example of the wisdom of the Minister

“An option of reducing recreational bag limits may be one of the options floated, but this could be combined with an increase to the overall recreational tonnage. This would allow more people to enjoy this valuable natural resource.

Errrr we might cut recreationasl bag limits but we will increase overall recreational tonnage.

Sorry but I dont quite get this? How can you increase recreational tonnage if you cut bag limits? Doesnt make sense to me????

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

If you cut the limit on snapper, this could be coupled with an increase in the bag limits of other species. If the minister reads this website, he could lean toward doubling the limit on red cod and spiny backs, this would increase the recreational tonnage considerably.

The average surfcaster could count his snapper catch per year on one hand, two hands if he is really lucky, but red cod and spiny backs ... priceless.

From reading the musings on this site, I would say there would be many contributors who rarely, if ever catch a snapper, so a reduced bag limit would mean nothing. However, to those boaties in the Hauraki Gulf or anywhere at sea off Auckland, it would be really bad news.

I meet and speak with several of the torpedo anglers around the Napier coastline. One in particular speaks quite openly of his success, and he is possibly the best in the area. He fishes every day the sea will allow him and this season he has landed forty-four snapper. When you consider two sets a day, averaging three days a week, with twenty-five hooks per set then that is a dreadful return.

Will a reduction in the bag limit have any affect on local anglers, I greatly doubt it. How many of the anglers on this site would kill nine snapper, how many anglers ever catch nine snapper? Not many, most are very happy to return what they don't want anyway.

In truth this is not an argument that will mean much to Hawke's Bay anglers, more a case of politics, that as usual, have little meaning.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by te-hori <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=te-hori' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 16/6/2013, 1:32 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Dead right hangler agree !

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 16/6/2013, 11:58 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Good to hear the disparaging Kon Tiki fisherman are happy to take cuts on their catch to support the needs of big business and commercial fishermen. I commend your sacrifice in accepting second grade catches so asians can have the best table fish. Good for you.
As far as HB goes this cut is mooted for snapper 1 (auckland to bay of plenty I believe). But I cant help but wonder whether this will be applied across the entire country. It is as always the thin end of the wedge.
But I disagree that no one in HB gets a bag limit of snapper. A few times a year it happens particularly if your prepared to take a drive and do some hard yards. A lot of the fishermen I know on this site also drive to BOP, Matata and Pikowai also. And those that make that effort deserve there 10 snapper.
Of course this SURFCASTING message board isnt just for those who live in HB. Would be nice to hear how those in BOP and further afield think. Thats MY OPINION.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Wellyfisher <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Wellyfisher' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 16/6/2013, 3:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Of course the major problem is commercial fishing, but we are all part of it. We need a government that is motivated to make this the most protected and well managed fishery in the world. The whole reason many foreign countries are fishing here is because they have ruined their own fisheries.

That said I don't think it would be a bad thing to limit recreational catches as PART of the solution. For example if as part of the 20 you were allowed no more than 5 snapper, blue cod, gurnard and possibly some of the other more desirable fish. Just my opinion.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 16/6/2013, 8:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Rex, most recreational angling shows and fishing papers constantly push a message that has almost become a cliché, 'Limit your kill don't kill your limit'. There are many variations but all carry the same idea.

When I lived in the Bay of Plenty I caught my limit on the odd occasion but never once killed my limit. If the limit was reduced by the minister it would make no difference to me.

I don't understand why you wish to involve Asian interests or those who use kontiki/torpedoes in this thread. In this area they catch very few snapper so it's a non sequitur. New Zealand lives or dies on its exports, this message has been driven home in the press all day.

A reduction in the limit of snapper, a limit we rarely catch and when we do we put them back, is just scaremongering on all sides.

You can bet your life this coming week the angling press will be on a high horse once again. Shades of 'the Snapper Fighting Fund, and 'Kahawai, the People's Fish. This, as usual will achieve nothing other than sell a few more papers, keeping the editorial staff and the paper's owners happy.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by James HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=James+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 16/6/2013, 8:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Without a major reduction in commercial catch limits any reduction in recreational bags is a waste of time.
The biggest reason bugger all snapper are caught in HB by shore fisherman is due to the large commercial fleet that we all see. As Rex said the further north you go in HB the greater the chance you have of catching your limit of snapper, funny how that coincides with distance from trawling fleet bases.
I fish BOP fairly regularly and the snapper fishing can be outstanding and they actually have a lower limit than us in HB with a emmensely larger snapper biomass than us.
During the time when the Rena disaster produced an exclusion zone for all commercial fisherman from the shoreline to 22km offshore, this was probably the major reason behind the BOP surfcasters having a bumper season in both size and numbers of fish.

No excuses, just get out there!!

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Hangler did you realise that RecFish actually won the court case against the commercial interests over the kahawai??
So what do you think the causes are for the lack of snapper in HB?? Recreational fisherman taking too many??
As rex said very few fisherman in HB and also BOP take their limit everytime they go fishing or even once or twice a year, so are we the cause of the lack of snapper?? Do commercial get their TACC every year?? You bet they do and probably a little bit more as a bycatch!!!

No excuses, just get out there!!

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by GaryK <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=GaryK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 16/6/2013, 9:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Question?.........Are the biggest snapper all that important at spawning time?

The snapper don't know where the car park is!
Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by racepics <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=racepics' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/6/2013, 5:39 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

In reality dropping the recreational catch limit will not save many fish. They think that because the limit is 9, people are catching 9. That very seldom happens.
Telling us we can catch less of something we cant catch any of most of the time will achieve nothing.

So yes, they can drop my limit to 4, 5, or 6 - it won't be noticed by me. The most I've ever caught in one outing is 3 anyway. And as Hangler says, most surfcasters can count their annual snapper take on one hand.
Yes there are a few 'guns' who manage to catch a lot more, but fish saved by limiting those guys will not make any measurable difference to the fish population.

http://www.paniasurfcasting.org
http://www.surfcaster.co.nz

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/6/2013, 9:29 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

To follow the trout fisher's example, the upper size limit was introduced to preserve quality breeding stock. This proved very successful with shore line anglers at Lake Tarawera catching large jack fish and releasing them into Fish and Game's trap for milt removal.

The program proved so successful, these game farm raised fish are now used to stock other waters country wide. I believe they are also used to stock Lake Tutira.

The Irish government realised there were issues with bass, the numbers dropped dramatically. They banned commercial fishing, brought in a closed season for anglers and introduced a two fish limit during the open season.

As snapper is a major export earner for New Zealand, and God knows in today's hard economic times we need all the help we can get. I would not like to see a closed fishery. The recreational snapper fishing around Auckland and the far north would run into millions of dollars and keeps many people employed. I therefore suggest a closed season may benefit the fish, but would damage the people. A two fish limit would be extreme, but as snapper are quite a large fish, I would see no problems in a small reduction. As already mentioned, most anglers take only what they want and return their surplus. Therefore a reduction would mean nothing.

I can understand anglers objecting to commercial fishing, but in reality fishing creates work, the industry employs a lot of people, it's a valuable export earner and no government is likely to make a drastic cut in the TAC.

There is also the treaty to be considered. It's most unlikely Maori will support any reduction in either recreational or commercial fishing. Snapper is an important part of kaimoana, and Sealord, the largest of the commercial companies, is owned by Maori.

Both senior parties in parliament under MMP will do anything to get the Maori vote, the government need those votes to secure a majority therefore it's most unlikely such an event (large cuts) would get though a first reading.

I can't wait to see the Fishing papers later in the week ... the word hysteria is already fixed firmly in my mind.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/6/2013, 12:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Hangler. I wasn’t going to reply to any of this as I have no desire to give you any more oxygen than necessary to spout your negative and uninformed drivel. However I will outline why I said a couple of things.

1/ Asians: A huge amount of our fish end up in Asian markets. They end up there because Asian countries appear to have no concept of environmental sustainability. They fish out there waters and then try to plunder everybody else’s. This is not racist ranting but well documented fact, historically through Korean fleets, the Japanese market, foreign charter vessels and more recently the ever growing presence of China who are in the process of introducing massive fishing trawlers into the Pacific.

Having overpopulated, polluted and raped their own oceans they are now hungrily eying the Pacific Islands, Australian and New Zealand. If you doubt veracity of my concerns take a look at the ravaging of the tuna and shark population and ask what’s next. It’s been well documented on television and proven by those who are trying to catch such fish as yellow fin. If you’re passionate and GENUINELY concerned about the fishery you would have to have been living under a rock not to know this. Our fishery is constantly under threat from corporate and political greed, who are willing to sell our resources to Asian/foreign interests to line their own pockets . And it’s us, the recreational fisherman who are being asked to pay for it

If you have any doubts about Asian interests, look in your in own bedroom. It’s pretty obvious your own wife knows which side her bread is buttered when it comes to wanting to be in this country and to enjoy our fishery as indeed many Chinese do. I had the pleasure of hosting several young students from China over the years and I can say they were by and large really great people. I can also say that not one of them was very keen on heading back to China at the end of their stay, in fact quite a few didn’t and are busy overstaying and hiding in Auckland. They recognised pretty quickly what we had in this country including our fisheries which from your comments you seem quite happy TO GIVE AWAY.

2/ Economic interests. What garbage. Here’s the facts taken from a recent report that examined the fishery in relation to the Foreign Charter Vessels used by New Zealand Fishing Companies so they don’t have to pay real wages to REAL New Zealanders .

There are actually 11,500 people employed in NZ in the fishing industry. Most of them probably work in shitty factories where they take home $13.50 an hour along with the joy of smelling of fish for the rest of their 24 hours. A lot of the foreign owned fishing vessels are manned by Asians who routinely, exploit beat and rape their own crewmen and pay about $2.00 an hour if their lucky. This is the true picture of your so called “major export earner for New Zealand”. Sure the aquaculture industry makes 1.56 billion, but out of this the commercial fishery provides around $296,000 to our economy. So whose getting this money? Sure as hell isn’t the ordinary kiwi. But look carefully at the Business Round Table factory owners and corporate iwi and you’ll soon see the magnificence of the trickle down affect of your so implied export bonanza. The rich are getting richer while we the recreational fisher are told we must give up our rights for god and country. What TOTAL CRAP.

Contrast this with what could be if we actually curtailed the commercial fishing industry to a level of real sustainability and looked at how much we could earn through tourism and education. I would welcome any Chinese tourist coming to our country to sample our hospitality enjoy catching 10 snapper and spend money as well as learning about the benefits of sustainability and looking after the environment. And the money earned would go to real New Zealanders and not a privileged few.

3/ Torpedo Users. I wasn’t referring to all torpedo users but just you and your mate Te Hori. Both of you apparently frame your sad arsed arguments around self interest. You never catch 10 snapper so who cares if they cut the limit. Won’t affect me. Is there any concern for the state of the fishery in these comments or is just the joy of hearing the sound of your own voice criticising anybody else who dares to speak. Well let me tell you something pal. I’ll speak my mind any day of the week regardless your jaded and negative attitudes.

And I’ll say this in closing. . Personally I don’t have a problem with a small reduction in limits as long as this is matched by cuts in the commercial quota. If there not prepared to make sacrifices then why should recreational fishermen?

You can sit there Hangler, mocking those who dare to raise any points contrary to your rather blinkered point of view if you wish. And in some respects you will be right. There will be a lot of anger, a lot of hand ringing and ineffective protest. But amongst this, people will put forward submissions and will fight these proposals. They won’t win but at least they’ll keep the pendulum from swinging completely in favour of political and commercial self interest and greed. It is because of this passion and drive that you constantly attack and deride, that this country still has a limit for snapper and that we haven’t been reduced to only being able to catch red cod. Thank Christ they don’t all think like you Hangler. Good luck to them I say.

Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Chad <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Chad' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/6/2013, 4:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Few good points there.

The bullshit free version:

Snapper stocks are low

Commercial sector needs more regulations on fishing areas and quota

Recreational fisherman do make an impact

How do we make it better?

By everyone working together and taking a collective cut across the board thats "fair & acceptable"

From here it turns to shit, but these are the main points.

Wairoa
Hawkesbay

Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/6/2013, 4:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

I admire your passion, Rex, but once more, you see fit only to attack the writer rather than the argument. As such I offer no reply to you. Your style of expressing an opinion, especially by making it personal to myself and te-hori is a common failure, usually found in letters to the editor of most newspapers.

It rarely, if ever, wins.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Phill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Phill' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/6/2013, 6:31 pm, in reply to "Snapper Cuts On the Table"
Tackle Tactics

I'm surprised that Nathan Guy could even make an announcement about quoters , he must have coming up for air .
JK must have trouble walking sometimes.
I would be happy with a size increase and the commercial guys using long lines may be .

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by roybop <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=roybop' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 8:54 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Here is my 2 cents worth.
Only take what you need.
Increase size limit to 30cm.
Decrease catch limit to 5 fish per day.
Long lines - reduce hook numbers down to 5.
Personally if I was lucky enough to catch a 5kg snapper I would photograph and return the fish as I am not interested in PIN fish awards etc and also I have read somewhere that large snapper don't make good table fish either.

A woman who has never seen her husband fishing,
doesn't know what a patient man she married !

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by te-hori <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=te-hori' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 3:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

I thought that to roybop, have only ever caught one big snapper ! and was supprised to find it was beaut to eat as did most of the old folks, who live near me. agree with Phil on size limit.wont hold my breath tho.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 8:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

I think we should be looking at twenty percent, a nice round figure.

A twenty percent rise in the size limit, five centimetres, from twenty-seven up to thirty-two would seem fair and manageable, a fillet on a twenty-seven cm fish will hardly make a sandwich. Many boaties already operate a 35 cm size limit so no hardship there.

Twenty percent reduction in the takeable limit would bring it down to seven fish. Quite acceptable, no problems and more than enough to feed a family ... and the neighbours.

A twenty percent reduction in hook numbers on a long line. Dropping it to twenty from twenty-five won't create and huge arguments. A few years ago the limit was fifty hooks so long-line anglers need to show they are willing to continue to do their bit.

A twenty-percent reduction on net length for those who set a net when out in their boats, in estuaries, or from the shore. This would mean a forty-eight metre net instead of sixty. Plenty enough mesh hanging there to get a feed.

A twenty percent reduction in the length of a spear, means those with an aqualung will simply have to get closer to their prey, thereby reducing their catch. I was thinking twenty percent less air in the bottles but that could be dangerous.

Finally, and by far the most important, a total ban of all big money competitions where snapper are the target fish. Don't get me wrong there can still be big money competitions but snapper will no longer be the prime cull. This would show we respect snapper for what it is, the sport and the food, not a way to raise funds and swell a bank balance.

Now if all else fails it can always be suggested the minister should give serious consideration to the introduction of a salt water fishing license. This way amateurs, just like professionals, can buy a quota. Now that would really level the playing field and I am confident would be fully supported by all ... just a thought.

ROTFPML.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Phill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Phill' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 9:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"
Tackle Tactics

The licence idea has been thrashed out before . I can't see it ever working not with government deptments running things , the money will just vanish .

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 9:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Phil, the last line: ROTFPML. Get a teenager to explain what that means.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Phill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Phill' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 9:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"
Tackle Tactics

Sorry Hangler I haven't a teenager handy at the moment.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Phill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Phill' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 9:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"
Tackle Tactics

Do I have to supply you with some adult nappies

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/6/2013, 11:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Now you're on to it. How can we laugh at others if we can't laugh at ourself? Life is just too short. I for one go fishing to get away from politics and the serious side of life.

Living in Hawke's Bay, frequently I have visited the Iron Pot at Napier, and queued with other locals, to buy a string full of fish off a trawler ... there can be little doubt I am a bloody traitor.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 19/6/2013, 9:05 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

A bib would be more appropriate

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 19/6/2013, 11:55 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

May I assume you piddle from the wrong end?

Incidentally Rex, I have seen at least four very cheap camera tripods on TradeMe $1.00 reserve bargains that would make an ideal rod rest, did you grab one.

Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 19/6/2013, 1:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Cuts On the Table"

Many will have considered me a dribbler over the time Ive been on this site but hopefully never from the wrong end. If thats something your worried about Hangler you might need to seek out the attention of someone with a very long finger.

I havent had time to sort out a tripod as Ive been occupied with the processes involved in trying to pay for it. Still a great idea though and one I hope to get round to. Anyway the Hawkes Bay red cod are becoming far to relaxed in my fishing absence so something has to be done.

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