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Duty of Care?

Posted by Graham Bullock on April 12, 2007, 11:13 pm

Just been reading last weeks Motor Trader mag and page 6 as an article about a garage that Mot'd a car, parked it outside in a compound and rang customer to collect it, rang again and again for three days but customer did not collect. The car was then burnt out by vandals and the court has forced trader to pay £2000 damages. (Full article on link)

What do you think? Trader has kept car in locked compound, what more could he have done? I would have said he has done all that is reasonably practicable to safeguard the vehicle and had signs up warning that vehicles were left at owners risk - why should he be liable and more to the point - what else are we all liable for?

Graham

Link: Garage Fined for breach of Duty of Care

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Dave Harney on April 13, 2007, 3:07 pm, in reply to "Duty of Care?"

Thats a bit worrying ! we have a freelander that a customer has "abandoned" in our yard since January despite several calls (all voicemail) to him to remove it.
He has the keys, as he was coming back that evening to tow it away and haven't heard a thing from him since.
Last message i left him said i was going to have it removed to a secure compound that would charge him 15 quid a day storage and i still haven't heard anything. Maybe he's dead !!

Regards
Dave

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Graham McNichol on April 13, 2007, 6:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

What about all old Metros etc, that get left after failing MOT, suppose we are going to have to look after them now and put them to bed everynight.
How long are we to keep these piles, because customers never come back for em, we only have so much room! Can they now come back after a few months and demand payment for thier car!!!!, probably knowing this countries laws.

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Tony Sefton on April 13, 2007, 8:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

Ridiculous. We alway's tell customers that if cars are parked outside, then they are not covered on our insurance and they have to accept all responsibility for them. Usually they pick them up but some just can't be bothered, They don't realise or don't care how much extra pressure it puts us under worrying about where we are going to park cars that are fixed and ready to go. We have only got a certain amount of inside storage that is kept for Cars that are being worked on, Not Completed ones unless theres any spare spaces inside. ?? If the customer can't pick it back up, That should be his problem, Not ours. ??

Funny how the Job is alway's desperate and needs doing "NOW". So we take the job on to help them and then they can't be bothered to pick them up when they are done. ???? Sometimes for several day's. ?? This Judge needs a kick up the Bum and needs to see things from both points of view. Who is to say that the customer didn't jump over the fence and set his own car on fire to save paying for it and to get paid out without claiming on his own insurance. ??????

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Keith Simpson on April 14, 2007, 11:29 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

The Legal way to get around this problem is to put a disclaimer on your job card and get customer to sign it. It works we have had this problem customer hasnt a leg to stand on if things go wrong. You might think this is harsh but Garage owners have to cover there arses at all times. Without being unreasonable of course.

Best Wishes

Keith

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Phil Dunmore on April 14, 2007, 9:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

Magistrate needs a reprimand for this. Why does the law not protect us from such situations? Why should we have to get the customer to sign a piece of paper to say he will not be unreasonable?
As this currently ends with the garages insurer, I would have thought it in thier interest to appeal. This type of ruling only encourages lowlifes to attempt similar stunts.

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Joe McGeoghan on April 15, 2007, 8:16 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

You'll need to be careful here. A disclaimer doesn't discharge you of your duty of care.

An 'unacceptable careless act' is just that - regardless of any disclaimer.

(Well, that's what my mate told me once, in the pub...)

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by mark mcgrath on April 15, 2007, 9:36 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

what is needed is a definition of the extent of duty of care.
from what this judges said we are liable for anything
so if i pay to put my car in an ncp car park and it catches fire they are liable then . which to my simple mind is the same sort of scenario or does the
act of handing me the keys turn the world up side down
we often have cars in for a number of days obviously some outside but the standard disclaimer does not apply ! not good that

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Dave F on April 15, 2007, 10:18 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

I was taken to court many moons ago for breach of 'duty of care' but against all the odds which included the IMI's legal team and even my own solicitor saying i would loose, i still won.

I managed to prove ( after 18 months of research ) that what was expected of me by the customer was unreasonable. To this day i swear the stress and effort of preparing my own case shortened my life by 5 years, but it was worth it to see the look on that b******s face.

I would say to this poor guy FIGHT !!!!

Dave F

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Keith Simpson on April 15, 2007, 11:12 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

When you except a rapair and the customer hands you his/her keys rightfully so we have a duty of care to handle his/her property as if it was our own. I am all for this as I have seen Techs in garages just jump in cutomers cars without seat covers or floor mats grubby hand marks all over the steering wheel ect ect. This poor sod has done as much as he can to protect his customers vehicle and should stand his ground. Properly insured garages would have legal costs writen into the insurance policy, if so his insurance company should now take over to fight his battle.
What I am saying is that when a customer just abandons his car with you pisses of on holiday or just doesnt want his wreck anymore due to cost of repairs ect. This disclaimer will stand up in any court beleive me.

Keith

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Sean Connelly on April 16, 2007, 9:11 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

Hi,

We have a similar type issue. I sold an old VW Beetle to one of our guys and we were prepared to let him keep it in the yard to work on in his own time. Unfortunately, he was asked to leave the company for various reasons. He has been asked several times to remove the car but 6 months later it is still rusting away.

How's the best way to sort this out....i need to send him a letter recorded delivery to makesure he gets it stating what we want him to do or else.

I guess the easiest way will be to tow it to his parents house and dump it there but i don't think they have a drive....

Cheers

Sean

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Russell Davey on April 16, 2007, 11:27 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

For any cars abandonded I`ve always parked them out on the steet, followed by a phone call/letter telling the owner whats been done and that the vehicle is now on a public highway without valid tax. Its always moved theyre arse into gear in the past, but after reading this thread I`m obviously in breach of duty of care??

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Dave Harney on April 19, 2007, 10:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

Good News

sent our bloke who "dumped" (4 months in total) his freelander in our yard a registered letter telling him i was going to push it out onto the main road - 2 days later - he has removed it.

I went to his house, unfortunately he was at work but spoke to his neighbour who said she wasn't surprised ! he also has a scrapper motor sitting outside his house and she reckons the car he was using now isn't taxed or insured !!

Dave

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by colin Bunn on April 28, 2007, 12:12 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

Seems strange that the duty of care lies with the garage and not the owner of the vehicle.The owner must surely be responsible for their own vehicle?? And where they choose to leave it.Does this mean that the council have duty of care when you use their car parks.

cheers

Colin

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Colin Bunn on May 27, 2007, 1:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

My business insurance is up for renewal.I have been paying for the cover of vehicles left on the premesis against theft,damage etc.It adds a lot to my policy and over the years have spent a lot of money on this item.I know others in my araea who only take out road risk cover and they have saved loads of money in comparison.I asked my broker and he said it was my responsiblilty to cover the vehicles whilst in my possesion but i am not legally obliged to cover them.I mentioned to him that these vehicles are already insured(i presume) by the owners and why are we insuring them twice!!Even if the car isnt insured by the owner it isnt my concern.Is this all to do with Duty of care??Are the insurance companies just making money for nothing??

cheers

Colin

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by John Goggin on May 28, 2007, 2:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"
John Goggin

Hello, this duty of care, is this the presiding judges interpretation of it, it could/probaly is wrong, I would investigate duty of care thoroughly before i accepted anything, judge or no judge, i have found this to be the case on more than one occasion, and appealed, a lot of court cases get won and lost on notions, pay a barrister a consultation fee, to get the researched definitive, its cheaper in the long run.

all the best

John Goggin

Re: Duty of Care?

Posted by Keith Simpson on June 8, 2007, 8:37 am, in reply to "Re: Duty of Care?"

You have a duty of care to safeguard your cutomers vehicles whilst on your premises even in your car park. Those car parks with disclaimers like left at your own risk will not do either. Although vehicles brought to you out of working hours and left on your premises by the AA without your consent well thats another matter.

Keith

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