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Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems - Fixed #

Posted by Jamie Lambert on March 27, 2009, 9:10 am

Year of Manufacture *: 2003
Engine Code or Type *: unknown

Hi all
Got this vehicle in on tuesday, towed in and non start. Fault coded no fault codes, checked fuel pressure no fuel pressure. I removed the rear seat base and the cover on the drivers side, checked power suply to pump and got a power and earth supply. Renewed pump but still no start and no fuel pressure. Removed the cover at the passenger side thats where the fuel supply line comes out of the tank. Removed the unit from the tank it has another fuel gauge on it and also what looks like a pressure relief valve, which i think is the problem. Has anybody come across the same problem or know how these work. Thanks in advance.

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 27, 2009, 10:22 am, in reply to "rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Sean McGettigan

SEARCH bar at the top of the page Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Tony Ludford <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5539' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 28, 2009, 8:43 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Tony Ludford

There's more info under MG ZT: http://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/msg/archive/15717.html

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 2, 2009, 8:59 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi all
Thanks Sean and Tony i always forget to look in the archives. I resealed the filter housing and put a little stianless steel screw in it so it wouldn't come apart again. Vehicle now has between 4 and 4.5 bar of fuel pressure when cranking but it takes a coulpe of mins before it fires. When it fires alot of black smoke from the exhaust as though excess fuel, once it clears vehicle runs fine. You can stop it and it starts straight away but if you leave it for a good few hours it's the same. When cranking it sounds like the timing is out because you can hear it popping at the exhaust. Removed spark plugs and they are very wet, renewed spark plugs and leads but no different. I'm going to check the commpressions and timing today, fault coded it yesterday but no fault codes. Got a good spark, checked in live data and got a crank signal. Has anybody got any advice, thanks in advance.

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 5, 2009, 5:11 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi all
Just looked at this again, i made a mistake last time i looked at it. Its only getting 3.5 bar fuel pressure when im cranking. Removed the fuel pump and filter housing, ran the pump in some fuel to see if the filter housing was leaking but everything was fine. Ive noticed that there is what looks like a pressure valve on the bottom of the housing. Also there's one on the fuel rail aswell, im thinking that the one on the housing could be faulty but not 100% sure. Could anybody give some advice thanks in advance.

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 6, 2009, 8:33 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Tony Sefton

I would have thought 3.5 bar of pressure is plenty to get the car running. ??

Tony. S.

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 6, 2009, 9:50 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Tony
Thanks for your reply, sorry for late reply dont have internet at garage. I too would of thought that 3.5 bar would start the car. When i had the fuel filter housing out on the pressure regulator it had 4.55 bar stamped on it. Also on the regulator on the fuel rail it had 3.5 bar stamped on it. Im assuming that the one on the filter housing is faulty as im only getting 3.5 bar. All i can think is that there isnt enough pressure to atomise the fuel correctly and its wetting the plugs. I think im going to have to bite the bullit and buy a new filter housing and hopefully that will sort it.

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 6, 2009, 11:00 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Tony Sefton

Hi Jamie. How are you checking pressure. ??? are you using a coda or similar. in line with the fuel flow. ??

If so and one regulator is set at 3.5 bar then you will not be able to get more than 3.5 bar without blanking it off before the rail. ???

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 7, 2009, 12:04 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Tony
I am using just a SP fuel pressure tester, not in the fuel line but there's a valve on the end of the fuel rail. I now understand that the fuel pressure will not beable to get above 3.5 bar becuase that is the lowest rated regulator in the system. So if i blank of the fuel line before it goes into the fuel rail, and measure the pressure it should tell me what the other regulator is doing?

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 7, 2009, 8:24 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"

Hi Jamie. If you have 3.5 bar and thats what the Rail pressure reg is set at, i wouldn't waste any more time looking at that side of things. Are you sure that the fuel is not contaminated with diesel or anything like that. ?? compression ok, ?? timing. ?? Live data for coolant temp etc. ??

H.T.H. Tony.

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 7, 2009, 7:26 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Tony
Thanks for your reply, blanked off the fuel line before the fuel rail and got 4.5 bar so it seems thats fine. Checked compressions and valve timing both o.k, it just sounds as though its firing all wrong, popping coming from the exhaust. The first time i try and start it, it fires once and then nothing after that as though the plugs are too wet.

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by ian slattery <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1196' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 8, 2009, 10:14 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Ian Slattery

have you checked for blocked exhaust or snapped turbo

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 8, 2009, 11:18 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi all
Got another look at this today, looked in live data engine coolant temp, air temp, manifold pressure, throttle valve sensor all looked okay. Looked at injection pulse when cranking it was at 21 ms, which i thought was far too high. Checked all voltages at ecu multiplug and all were good, checked earths and lives to ecu and they were o.k. Looked at injection duration and that started at 18 ms, after cranking the duration started to come down to 15 ms then went to nothing. It seems to be over fueling and flooding itself, im thinking that the ecu could be at fault. I cant see that the exhaust is blocked as it starts after alot of cranking and throttle pedal hard down. Going to send the ecu for testing, but has anybody else got any views on the problem it would be most appreicated. Thanks in advance.

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2009, 8:35 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Tony Sefton

Hi Jamie, You send a lot of ecu's for testing don't you. ??

Are you sure that the fuel isn't contaminated with diesel, ?? When you take out the flooded plugs and leave them for a few minutes, do they dry out completely or does it leave an oily film on them. ??? does it smoke badly when running, ?? does it smell unusual when its running.??

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2009, 10:04 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

hi tony, fuel not contaminated, when take plugs out and leave for few mins they are bone dry no oily residue. car not smoking when running. thanks for your reply

regards jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Tony Vamplew <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1010' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 9, 2009, 10:24 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Tony Vamplew

hi, ecu can get water logged in scuttle panel some are not sealed thought a 53 plate would be, rimmers do a clip for fuel reg to hold it together as well ,

Tony

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 10, 2009, 9:51 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Tony
Thanks for your reply, got the ecu out and there's no sign of water anywhere. Tried bump starting vehicle to see if there's any interference off starter motor but still the same. I dont know if this means anything, but i looked inside the fuel tank on the passenger side and there's no fuel at all but there's loads in the drivers side.

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 10, 2009, 2:19 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Kevin Apps

Jamie.
Try searching the forum as i,m sure DaveH has posted a diagram of the tank and pump.
Kev.

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 10, 2009, 7:46 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Kevin
Thanks for your reply, found the post from Dave Harney but cant open the diagram for some reason. Also i have found a post from Dave Hill about having no fuel in the offside tank and the accumalator in the nearside not returning the fuel back to the offside. I wonder on mine if there is too much fuel been returned to the offside making the nearside dry and pulling air into the system. Going to put some fuel in the nearside tomorrow and see how it goes. Also the fuel gauge has gone off now it gets worse!

Regards Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 10, 2009, 10:18 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"

Jamie.
If you want others to help you, its a VERY GOOD idea to show you have searched and tried your best to source info first.
As for the gauge not working perhaps Martin Young could help if you ask, its all down to showing you maybe able to return the favour

.
Kev.
ps DaveH may put diagram back on his server if you ask,i did not know it was not there any more as its was all from (my) this old git,s memory

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 11, 2009, 9:51 am, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Jamie Lambert

Kev
I have searched in the forum and archive where else do you suggest i look?

Jamie

Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start

Posted by Dave Harney <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2603' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 11, 2009, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Re: rover 75 1.8 turbo / non start"
Dave Harney

Hi Jamie,
Have you got a copy of the broken "link" to the pic that doesn't open.

The pump on the offside delivers fuel to the accumulator where it is filtered, then delivered to the engine, as there is no return fuel line from engine, the pressure regulator opens at the specified pressure and returns fuel to the offside, this "return" pipe has a "hole" in it which creates a venturi effect as fuel is flowing through it which "draws" fuel from the left hand side.

If the accumulator can't hold any pressure for whatever reason ! then no fuel will be returned to offside !

Mg Rover

MG Rover forums

Diagram of fuel tank

Regards
Dave

You can trim a sheeps wool many times, but you can only fleece it once !

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 11, 2009, 2:40 pm, in reply to "Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Kevin Apps

Jamie
I think Dave has made it far to easy for you.
And knowing Dave i suspect it only took 10min,s or so.
Dave
Well done MATE all the best.
Kev.

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 11, 2009, 7:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"

Hi Dave
Thank you very much for posting that diagram, how do you mean have i got a copy of the broken link? I understand how the fuel pump and accumlator work, and now understand how it draws fuel from the nearside to the offside. I dont think theres a problem with fuel pressure as i have 4.5 bar with pressure tester in line, and 3.5 bar on the schrader valve on the fuel rail. What i cant work out is why there is no fuel in the offside or is this normal? I dont have a coda so i cant measure flow, im just wondering if its drawing air because the nearside is dry. I have looked on them links you posted but nothing, unlike what kevin thinks i am trying to sort it myself but i just keep drawing a blank.

Regards Jamie

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Dave Harney <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2603' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 11, 2009, 8:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"

Hi Jamie,

"What i cant work out is why there is no fuel in the offside or is this normal? I dont have a coda so i cant measure flow, im just wondering if its drawing air because the nearside is dry"

Which side of the tank is dry !!

Regards
Dave
ps - the unit on the fuel rail isn't a regulator, its a "damper".
I suspect this might be the pic that won't open

If you right click on the "broken link" and select properties, it will give you the "url" for it, if you copy and paste here, I will "mend" it.

You can trim a sheeps wool many times, but you can only fleece it once !

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 13, 2009, 11:56 am, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Dave
Sorry im getting myself confused! It's the nearside (left hand side) thats dry.

Regards Jamie

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Gwyn Williams <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5354' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 14, 2009, 1:19 am, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Gwyn Williams

Jamie, have you tried filling the tank? It maybe that the pump unit having come apart has pumped (leaked) all of the fuel to that side of the tank. Memory is failing, but I have a vague recollection of something similar happening to me, I think I put a gallon into the dry side and the pump then equalised the contents on both sides., good luck!! Gwyn

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by terry taylor <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5336' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 21, 2009, 10:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Terry Taylor

hi jamie did you manage to fix the rover yet because i have the same problem what was the fix.thanks terry

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 22, 2009, 8:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Terry
No havent fixed it yet. Have you got the same symptoms? Mine sounds as though the timing is incorrect when its cold. If you keep cranking it seems as though it sorts itself out and starts.

Regards Jamie

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 22, 2009, 11:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Kevin Apps

Jamie.
So do both sides of the tank have the same amount of fuel now ???
Kev.

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Russell Davey <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2748' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 23, 2009, 12:24 am, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Andy Davey

Hi Jamie

I've briefly read this thread about fuel delivery/pressure etc but..

"Mine sounds as though the timing is incorrect when its cold. If you keep cranking it seems as though it sorts itself out and starts."

So are you saying that you need to coax it to start(light throttle?)?

When anyone says those words to me about a K series, I immediately think about valve/seat distortion following head gasket failure?

I think you said earlier that the compressions were OK, can you perform a cylinder leakage test?

I may be way off, but thought its worth mentioning my experience of these heaps

Russ

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 23, 2009, 12:43 am, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Kev and Russ
The tank has got the fuel in both sides and i replaced the filter housing unit. You have to give it full throttle to start it sometimes but sometimes it will start straight away as though there was nothing wrong with it. I removed the ecu on monday morning and left it disconnected till last nite, reconnected and it started fine and ran fine. Took it for a run then i put it on the gas analyser it was reading about 7% c.o at tickover, then all of a sudden it came right down to under 0.2%. Then this morning it was back to the same it wouldnt start without alot of cranking and full throttle. Thanks for your posts.

Regards Jamie

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by terry taylor <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5336' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 23, 2009, 9:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Terry Taylor

hi jamie my car comes from another garage they fitted a new fuel tank because they had no petrol going to the injectors.but when we turn the engine over it sounds like the timing is out it back fires and pops i then saw your post and waited for the outcome we will now do the required checks.thanks terry

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 24, 2009, 8:11 am, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Tony Sefton

>>>>>>>car comes from another garage they fitted a new fuel tank because they had no petrol going to the injectors.<<<<<<<<<

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Gerard O'Sullivan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2866' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 24, 2009, 12:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"

So that's where I've been going wrong

Gerard

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by terry taylor <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5336' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 24, 2009, 9:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Terry Taylor

hi my dad was from up north he wasn't funny either.terry

Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 24, 2009, 11:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Kevin Apps

Terry
Gerard lives in Ireland

and i,m from down south

so there is very little humour about.
Kev.

Fixed #

Posted by Jamie Lambert on April 28, 2009, 9:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Rover 75 1.8T 2003 - Non start, fuel supply problems #"
Message modified by board administrator April 29, 2009, 3:31 pm

Hi all
Scoped the crankshaft sensor and it didnt look rite, although i dont have much experience with a scope. So i fitted a new crank sensor anyway, reset the fuel adaptions and the flywheel adaptions and it fired up straight away. Took it for a run and put it on the gas analyser everything was fine. Left it till next day and it was perfect, thank you very much to everybody who had posted messages and to Dave for posting the fuel tank diagram.

Regards Jamie

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