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Ford Focus 1.6 FYDA 2001- Code P0135, O2 heater circuit reoccurring - Fixed #

Posted by John Kennard on February 8, 2011, 6:04 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2001
Engine Size and Code *: FYDA
( Optional ) Scanner Used: IDS & Wurth WOW
( Optional) Fault Codes: P0135

Hi got a problem with this one at the moment. P0135 O2 Sensor Heater circuit Bank 1 sensor 1 keeps coming up, we have fitted a NGK sensor and checked & tested the wiring back to the ECU, all good. Also carried out a software update for drivability problems, although it doesn’t have any.

It takes a week or so before the EML light comes back on. We have fitted a load of NGK sensors previously to a lot of cars, but is this a case of needing the genuine O2 sensor? Anyone out there had a similar problem?
John Kennard.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 8, 2011, 9:51 pm, in reply to "Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Lee Mackintosh

is it an 02 sensor fault or a fuelling issue. I've had a focus before where one of the injectors leaked and caused an 02 sensor code and P0171.

i connected up a fuel pressure tester which shown a fast pressure drop with the engine off adn igntion off.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 8, 2011, 10:56 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Peter Mutlow

Hi John,

Emission figures at idle and fast idle might give a pointer..

Regards

Pete M

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 9, 2011, 8:15 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Mark Carter

Hi,
if the fault code is; P0135 O2 Sensor Heater circuit Bank 1 sensor 1, why are we asking for an emission reading ?

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 9, 2011, 10:08 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Lee Mackintosh

If its an issue with the heater part of the sensor or ecu circuit why does it take so long for the eml to re-appear.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 9, 2011, 10:38 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Peter Mutlow

Hi Mark,

I understand your point, but my working practice is that on any vehicle I work on, I like to get the full picture first and then go on from there...just in case.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Mark Lamont <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2555' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 9, 2011, 11:06 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Mark Lamont

I have the same car this afternoon with the same fault, have quoted for a genuine sensor although I have fitted ngk before with no problems. Can you check the resistance across both white wires of ngk sensor, compare reading with the rear sensor?

If my customer agrees to have a genuine sensor fitted I will measure resistance before I fit it, but may not be today.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 9, 2011, 11:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "

Hi Pete

If we were looking at a P0171 or P0172 then yes an emissions printout would be a wise move. However, the DTC is pointing us specifically toward a heater circuit fault, so surely it would be more efficient to go straight to the circuit in question & test it?

In this case I think it would be a waist of the customers money to waste time studying gas analyser printouts.

If this was a French motor then yes, chuck all logic out of the window, but a Ford is as straight forward as they come.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Steve Harrison <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1363' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2011, 7:59 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Stephen Harrison

John

I would agree with Mark & Dave on this one, I cannot see any merit in spending time looking at emissions readings that won’t tell you anything useful. The time it takes for the code to return may be a red herring as it could just simply be an intermittent fault.
I would concentrate on the heater circuit first as the code suggests.

Steve

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Terry Wood <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2771' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2011, 9:22 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Terry Wood

Hello John

Looking at the wiring diagram sensor 1 and 2 shares the same fuel pump relay live so this should rule out supply at s1 and s2 join

I would have a look at the ECU switched ground circuit with a scope during warm up to see if the circuit on and off time changes with temp
maybe also a good time to give the wiring wiggle test

look at the live data to see how quickly the sensor starts out putting a value and system goes closed loop (just in case the code is system logic not seeing CL quick enough)

HTH
Terry

Terry@ydhost.co.uk

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by John Kennard <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5582' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2011, 1:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
John Kennard

Hi Guys thanks for so much for your input on this one, the job is back in Monday. Out of interest I have taken gas readings which are as follows [CO..01] [CO2 14.97] [O2 .35] [Hc 28ppm] near perfect figures there’s no problem on the control side. I have wiggled the wires and also tested with headlamp bulb back to ECU, having struggled that wretched armour casing off, ensuring no resistance in wiring. The wiring is short to the ECU and only one entry through vehicle [no chaffing]

I like Terry's suggestion of scoping the heater circuit from cold and seeing how long the O2 sensor is supplied voltage, I assume when conditions are right the heater circuit is switched off. I do also have a genuine sensor waiting to go on if required, all £164.00 worth of sensor compared to NGK £48.00. It will be interesting to compare the resistance of both sensors heater circuits. I never thought a simple heater circuit problem could cause so much hassle.
Thanks for your input I will keep you informed of data & outcome hopefully Monday.
John Kennard.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2011, 3:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "

Hi John

The last few post in this thread have some info on testing the heater circuits

http://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/msg/1257429481.html

See Dave Hills post

HTH

Peter

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 10, 2011, 8:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Bryan Smith

John,
"I like Terry's suggestion of scoping the heater circuit from cold and seeing how long the O2 sensor is supplied voltage, I assume when conditions are right the heater circuit is switched off."

I may be wrong but I think Terry is suggesting you check whether the duty cycle is changing as the temp increases? I have also always been under the impression that the heater circuit continues to work, albeit at a lower duty cycle after full operating temp has been reached? Perhaps someone can tell me if that is correct as I have got to look at a VW which also has a heater circuit problem.
Regards to all,
Bryan.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by John Kennard <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5582' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2011, 12:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "

Hi all, Just got this one back, it has been away now over a week and no codes. We now have a genuine Ford O2 sensor which across the heater circuit measures 6.4Ohms the NGK it is replacing is 6.2Ohms negligible difference on a 200K scale. I’m trying to attach the scope trace to this post, the blue line is battery feed and the red is the earth control to the ECU. All that varies is the earth return with revs I have taken one at 4000rpm & one at idle. May be someone could interpret these images and throw some light on the matter. The images are from the new genuine sensor; unfortunately one of the techs grabbed the job before I was aware and changed the sensors before I could scope the old NGK unit. Just hoping the genuine O2 sensor does the job as it is the first NGK that we have yet had problems with.
John Kennard

Just got the chance to re-edit this and add in the NGK Scope patterns which I went back & fitted, just in case there was a difference. To start with the genuine Ford sensor was a NGK, identical to the factor NGK sensor, except it had Ford & Ford part No. stamped into the metal sleeve. A Ford tech told me NGK's are standard on Fords. The lower links are the NGK Patterns. I will revisit this link in 2 weeks time if the light has stayed out.
John Kennard.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i364/cedargarage/Y697RCBFocusO2HeaterIdle1.jpg Genuine @ Idle

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i364/cedargarage/Y697RCBFocusO2Heater4000rpm1.jpg Genuine @ 4000 Rpm

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i364/cedargarage/Y697RCBFocusIdleNGK.jpg NGK @ Idle

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i364/cedargarage/Y697RCBFocus4000RpmNGK.jpg NGK @ 4000 Rpm

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Dave Hill <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2783' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 14, 2011, 11:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "

Hi John

Its hard to determine the waveforms, as the timebase & channel settings are not displayed. It is worth opening Pico software first & Then opening your saved waveforms from within Pico. i.e......

File
Open
then choose your saved psdata file.

This will then show the channel settings.

Your red trace appears to be displaying amps, with a scale of -100 to +200 amps?

OOOpps I just noticed your first image & your settings are displayed. Still the point I make is worth noting.

Your timebase is very short & its hard to judge what is happening from such a small snapshot.

Picoscope allows you to capture massive amounts of data & you are not taking advantage of it. I use the analogy of a video recorder (OK SKY+ to you lot

) recording a TV show. If you wanted to know what was happening in an exiting episode of Corrie, then you wouldn't record just a five minute segment from the middle of it. You would set it to record starting five minutes before & ending five minutes after the program finishes, so that you didn't miss a trick.

I know its weird comparison, to think of it like this, but it is a good idea to try to use the same technique when using the scope to study events. You really need to look at components as they are controlled through a range of operating conditions, so that you can understand things more clearly.

Here is an example with just 10 seconds on screen. OK its not an episode of Corrie, but you get the idea. Imagine the confusion that might follow, if you were to snap a few milliseconds in the middle of the following image. Especially the segment where the battery voltage dips. It is clear from the waveform, that the dip is caused by the starter motor load dragging the NBV down. It is only clear, because we can see the bigger picture!

10 second capture (with settings displayed

) .....

Well done though with the captures & managing to post them. A little more practice & you will be away!

HTH

Dave

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by John Kenard <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5582' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 15, 2011, 3:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
John Kennard

Hi Dave, Thanks for your most helpful info it makes me realise just how little I know about using a scope. My first problem was how do I upload this after reading the post in Diagnostic Equipment. I did save the data 4 lots in Picoscope in Waveforms with file names. But when uploading to Photobucket it would not recognise the Pico files so I had to open them do a screen dump and copy & paste into Paint & save as JPEG files. How do you get such a beautiful picture instead of a link into your post? Also after saving in Picoscope I could no longer page back & forth through the data as I did record these from cold to hot? All I had was a Image instead of pages of data to replay.

Again admitting my lack of knowledge with the Picoscope I did not know what sort of setup to do for capture so I went Automotive/Charging &Starting/Charging Circuits/Current / Volts (12) v I assumed this would give me the best picture setup as I was dealing with current checking the feed & earth side of the O2 sensor. Aside that I was feeling tight at the time of purchase and only went for a 2 channel scope. So I was not able to include the switching side although there is no problem there. I expect that explains why there is so much hash in the picture. I would also love to know what you used to edit the picture to add your cloud box & arrows.

I guess I need to get on a good scope course but training seems to be relentless at the moment and costing the earth as I am booked on a week’s worth at the end of the month with Autologic. The other problem as I get older is trying to make the old grey matter retain it all, but scoping is definitely is one I want to get to grips with.
John Kennard.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 15, 2011, 3:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Peter Warman - Administrator

Hi John

Have a read through the post at the top of this forum about uploading images. You can load then onto this forum straight of your PC without links

You can also upload Pico files

http://members2.boardhost.com/ukautotalk3/msg/1291565571.top

Dave Hill and Dave Harney are the masters at animated images, not sure what software they use (Dave will enlighten us

)

HTH

Peter

Fixed #

Posted by John Kennard on March 8, 2011, 1:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "
Message modified by board administrator March 8, 2011, 3:19 pm

Hi again, Just coming back to say the code hasn’t returned and a satisfied customer. It's all a bit of a mystery but the only thing that may have had a bearing on the job was I had left a couple of pins down the back of the wires when I was pinning out back to the ECU these have also since been removed, but it would take 3-4 days for the code to reappear. Many thanks for all your interest and help on this one.
John Kennard.

Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring

Posted by Sean Connelly <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5507' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2011, 8:51 am, in reply to "Re: Ford Focus 1.6 P0135 O2 Heater Circuit reocurring "

John,

Just a quick aside to your post and normally we are happy to use NGK/NTK O2 sensors on most cars however, we have tried to use them several times on older Honda Accords (2000-2002) and the ECUs on these just refuse to work with them constantly setting heater DTCs despite the resistance between them and a genuine one only be negligible.

Of all the vehicles that these should work fine on you would have thought Honda's would be one of them, but no, only genuine ones will do when the heater side on them go open circuit.

Regards

Sean

Link: Macclesfield MOT & Service Centre

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