I did not want to check the news when I woke up this morning. I had visions of the 2019 election all over again and the disappointment that came with it. I was praying Corbyn would hold onto his seat, but convinced dejected voters would back Labour, feeling they had no other choice. I knew Corbyn was hugely popular in Islington North, and I knew the race was close, but I feared that at the last moment, those who did not want to vote Labour would do just that. That’s what would’ve happened during the Blair years.
You can imagine my delight when I checked the news and found that voters had done quite the opposite, that they’d said, “We’re voting for the guy we want this time!”
In a neck and neck race, Corbyn ended up surging into an 8,000 vote lead. Even better, he won over 5,000 more votes in Islington North than Starmer won in Holborn and St Pancras. While I was sad Andrew Feinstein couldn’t take Starmer’s seat, I knew that wasn’t going to happen, but Feinstein helped cut Labour’s vote share in half! In 2019, under Corbyn’s leadership, and even under Miliband’s, Starmer took far more votes in his constituency than he did last night. So much for changing Labour for the better, you unlikeable toad!
Votes received by Keir Starmer in Holborn and St Pancras:
2015: 29,062
2017: 41,343
2019: 36,641
2024: 18,884
If I was with Andrew Feinstein right now, I would shake his hand. If I was with Jeremy Corbyn, I would hug him and high-five his team. You should never hero worship a politician, but Corbyn is one of the very few who is everything voters are supposed to want. The only reason more don’t see it is because of the relentless media smears. Corbyn’s constituents understand this, and that’s why 49% voted for him, despite him being up against the Labour machine. If Corbyn was the Labour candidate, he would’ve taken over 80% of the vote.
For evidence of who Corbyn is, you only need to look at the video of him greeting a woman he helped gain asylum seven years ago. Starmer runs away from such people and tells his far-right friends he would deport them. Corbyn had a heart-warming exchange with the woman and told her how proud he was that she’d built a life here and started her own business. You could see the love and respect between the two was mutual. Honestly, if you smear a man this nice, it says so much more about you than it does about him.
Corbyn holding onto his seat gave me a feeling I did not expect to feel today, it gave me a glimmer of hope I thought was gone. Corbyn was up against the Labour machine in Labour’s safest seat and Labour threw everything at that seat to get rid of him. Winning that seat mattered more to them than almost any other.
Even Labour’s bitter former deputy leader Tom Watson came to Islington North to help oust Corbyn. This is the man who spent years sabotaging his own party and left politics to work for a gambling firm. These new Labour types are such decent sorts, aren’t they? Always looking at how they can contribute to their bank balances when they leave politics.
Starmer ordered his candidate in Clacton to stop campaigning against Nigel Farage because he wanted all hands on deck to stop Corbyn, as well as the Greens in Bristol. Labour failed in both cases, with Carla Denyer defeating Labour by over 10,000 votes!
Embarrassingly, Labour were mad their Clacton candidate was getting more likes than Starmer on social media. Plus, they were worried that if their black candidate was too visible in his constituency and defeated Farage, the optics would be bad!
Starmer seemed genuinely concerned that racists would be upset if Labour defeated the far right with a black candidate. Labour staff harassed the poor guy non-stop to suspend his campaign, driving him to tears. This says so much about who and what Labour is now - a repugnant fascist party.
Labour was so driven by racism and spite it lost the chance to win Iain Duncan-Smith’s seat by deselecting Faiza Shaheen for liking a tweet by Jon Stewart. (Apparently, agreeing with something a Jewish comedian said is anti-Semitism now.) The combined vote of Labour and Shaheen was 51.5%, meaning she would have wiped the floor with Duncan-Smith if she was the Labour candidate. You would think this would give Labour pause for thought, but Ed Balls, the former Labour MP, said on ITV that it was worth losing the seat to stop Shaheen. That’s how disgusting this lot are.
Ironically, Starmer shifted all the way to the right in order to chase votes, and yet he never really gained votes, but gaining votes was never the main goal: appeasing his donors was. The few right-wing votes Labour picked up were offset by votes they lost to the Greens, who’ve quadrupled their representation to four seats, and independents, who’ve won eight seats. Labour lost five seats to pro-Palestinian candidates, despite telling us people don’t vote on foreign policy and calling those candidates “pro-Hamas”.
The only thing Labour has to gloat about is that our joke of an electoral system is set to give them 2/3 of the seats with 1/3 of the vote. A low voter turn out of 57% means only 1 in 5 members of the electorate voted Labour and this delivered a 170 seat landslide. Labour took the lowest vote share of an incoming government ever, and I believe I’m right in saying Starmer has the lowest approval rating for an incoming prime minister.
If you think pollsters are there to reflect public opinion, rather than manipulate it, consider they told us Labour would win 45% of the vote and it took just 33.8%. Corbyn’s Labour took 40% in 2017. In other words, Corbyn took a much larger vote share in 2017 and took far fewer seats, despite being evidently more popular. Corbyn is still more popular today, with a higher approval rating than Starmer who gets a much easier ride from the media.
Labour vote share:
2017 - 12,877,918
2019 - 10,269.051
2024 - 9,634,399
Labour has won the biggest landslide ever with fewer votes than in its most crushing defeat. Something is very wrong with this picture. The only reason we’re not looking at a decreased vote share for Labour is because it improved by 19% in Scotland. Elsewhere in the UK it performed worse or stayed the same. What were you thinking, Scotland?
That voters in Islington North chose Corbyn as an individual over Labour as an institution shows the establishment can be defeated. To highlight how impressive a feat this was, consider what would happen if every candidate stood as an independent. How many votes do you think Labour’s Praful Nargund would have won in Islington North? The man who made his millions from private healthcare would have won close to zero votes.
In other words, we’re only being lumbered with these awful candidates because our party system reduces the viability of alternatives. If we’re going to have a party system, the least we can do is change to a more representative system such as PV or AV. Under these systems, people are more likely to vote for candidates they like. Even better, if a party only gets 1/3 of the vote, they will get 1/3 of the seats. Our current system makes genuine representation impossible and this is why so many people feel disenfranchised.
The Tories keep telling us they’re representing the British people, by which they mean bigots and utter bastards. Labour keep telling us they’re a changed party as though their message resonates with anyone but bigots and utter bastards, but the majority of the public are rolling their eyes.
If our politicians really gave a shit about representing the public, they would change to a more representative system, but that’s the last thing they want because true representation makes corruption harder. The party that rigged its internal processes to ensure it can never have MPs like Corbyn again is not going to change our political system to make more Corbyns possible, unless its hand is forced. But its hand may well be forced…
Far from being in an amazing place, Starmer’s Labour is vulnerable. Not only did its vote share not improve, but many voted reluctantly, and next time around will be less inclined to do so. Odds are in 2029, Greens and independents will do even better than this time. Plus, there is still the possibility of a new party emerging - a left-wing equivalent of Reform (not that I want the left wing label or the Reform comparison). I would much rather frame it as a people’s party, as the 99% taking on the 1%, a process of the democratisation of society.
Consider the possibility that all the Tories have to do to regain power is merge with Reform. Those two parties combined would take around 40% of the vote. Labour would almost certainly take less than their current 34%. There is no possible way Labour could win unless it embraced the people and policies it has turned its back on.
When the penny drops, Labour might realise an alternative voting system is necessary for them too, regardless of what their donors want. It could save Labour from the humiliation of a landslide defeat just five years after their landslide victory.
If we got a new voting system, it would be the perfect opportunity for Corbyn to start a new party and just think what it could achieve. Not only did independents with no name recognition take seats, but others came extremely close. Jess Phillips was within 700 votes of defeat and Wes Streeting was within 550. Rajesh Agrawal, Jonathon Ashworth, Thangnam Debbonaire, Heather Iqbal, and Kate Hollern all lost their seats.
Just imagine what we could do if the mainstream media gave us a fair shot. The media showed every victory speech from Reform, but almost none from the left. I’m told the BBC refused to show the live speeches of the Green winners or Corbyn, but I was sleeping because I was not staying up all night watching this crap.
I know many people hate the idea of party politics, and I’m one of them, but with the name recognition of a party, more independents could have won. Imagine the scenes if we’d unseated Wes Streeting, the soon-to-be health secretary funded by private healthcare lobbyists. All the evidence shows there is massive room for a new party which, at the very least, could force Labour to improve its policies, and at best, could form part of a coalition government. That has to be better than a huge Labour majority, right?The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
So cruel and unnecessary, no wonder the "left" never get anywhere...Corbyn's a decent man who doesn't meet what seems to me your childish need for a super-hero or prophet to take you to the promised land. Instead he does his bit in his own way, consistently and bravely. and continues to be supported by those that matter, his constituency, whereas you opinion in this case doesn't. .I am a bit disappointed, coming from you, and not Keith on this occasion. No apologies here either for my bluntness. Cheers. JKM
Oh do stop moaning he isn't detested for failing the Fuhrerprinzip but for betraying himself and his most loyal supporters.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Poltroon - "an utter coward" It is deeply insulting.
Well, I'm of the opinion that Corbyn was a good Constituency MP with some principled views. Unfortunately he chose to stand for the leadership and somewhat more unfortunately won. In that position his principles on a very personal basis did take a massive downturn: he seemed utterly incapable or indeed unwilling to protect his natural allies from being picked off one by one...and thus was the architect of his own and indeed the Labour party's own destruction.
Craven & Poltroon would seem apt in the absence of any real excuse for Corbyn's utter inertia when in the Labour leadership role.
You are being incredibly judgemental. His leadership was merely fortuitous, he only put himself forward as an alternative - I don't think he ever expected to win, and II don't think he was psychologically prepared. Basically you're criticising him for not being ruthless enough with his political enemies or protecting himself , and those around him, I agree, interests. Perhaps he was never moulded for leadership but I think you seem to forget the incredible alliance of his own MPs, the government and the media all totally against him, has any leader of a party in the UK in modern times faced the opposition and calumny that Corbyn has?
And he's still there, it would have been enough to put most folks of his age off any effort to continue. And as I said, his constituents continue to support him, and perhaps for Corbyn this is the most important thing of all?
"...perhaps for Corbyn this is the most important thing of all?"
I reckon so.
"..basically you're criticising him for not being ruthless enough with his political enemies or protecting himself , and those around him, I agree, interests."
Sure and we can see the results today so it's hard to be other than judgemental. I reckon he was unused or indeed totaly incapable of working on anything other than as an individual constituency MP. Just why he stood for the position of leader is beyond me.
It's hard to believe, but he appeared to have no idea whatsoever of the nature of the party he had inhabited for so long...the cliques, groups, dynamics, alliance's of all those vying for power. Corbyn had no idea of how to build and retain the aliances necessary to maintain the position of power required to forward an agenda.
"... he appeared to have no idea whatsoever of the nature of the party he had inhabited for so long..."
-- What's more, he's still determined to get back into it...
So many Labourites can't walk away: I've seen it in my personal life as well as in reported politics. They are totally drugged by their fantasies of belonging to 'a progressive party that has achieved so much', etc. Plus there is the pull of all the long-term personal connections and shared histories people have. It's actually pretty fucking pitiful, when measured against the scale of the harm that is done by keeping this political monstrosity alive.
He was the worst Liarbour leader since Ramsay MacDonald. You might do well to attend to your beam, rather than carp at me. I didn't betray my friends to zionist antisemites.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Ignore K264's usual tirade .. he doesn't analyse, he proclaims
I am not sure what happened with johnlilburn taking up the 'poltroon' flag : /, but hey, I can understand him in a sense that Corbyn wasn't Machiavellian enough to destroy the opposition, you know, to name a few like right-wing Progress strand of the Labour Party, in addition to UK Deep State, CIA (Mike Pompeo said he will be taken care of), UK military and finally zionist lobby. I can sympathise with the notion that he should have been Stalin. Against the wall etc. But there are limits these days and at the end of the day he was just a caretaker on the left who got unexpectedly voted in (he had the short straw .. remember?).
It's laziness not to analyse .. and just proclaim. It's like scratching the blackboard:
It wasn't that Corbyn wasn't the New Machiavelli but that he failed the elementary task of a person which was to have a backbone. Principles are annoying since you live up to them when the going is bad as well as when it is good. Corbyn betrayed himself and sold out the working class. I don't bother to give a thesis of my opinions because this board is the wrong place and you are the wrong person.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Re: Bimbo!
Posted by t on July 7, 2024, 10:55 pm, in reply to "Bimbo!"
I am trying to think how that insults me. Anyways, let's look at the content:
It wasn't that Corbyn wasn't the New Machiavelli but that he failed the elementary task of a person which was to have a backbone.
Declaration. No analysis. I do realise that us peasants on the TLN board shan't get access to your famed thesis, which will explain how you get to shout out declarations with no worry, and why that is appropriate. Promises .. and the cat is in a bag
Re: Bimbo!
Posted by Keith-264 on July 10, 2024, 10:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Bimbo!"
All you had to do was take your head out of your arse, it was plan to see, Bimbo.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Re: Bimbo!
Posted by t on July 11, 2024, 11:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Bimbo!"
All you had to do was take your head out of your arse, it was plan to see, Bimbo.
As ever, you have a way with words (apart from misspelling). I am, of course, not insulted. I'd have to respect you to feel that. Apart from being gnomic, which is the prerogative of feeble minds (you may be under illusion it isn't hehe), and manipulative, which is also possible and also seems quite likely, I detect a ginormous ego. Hence you have Ken and lil' mua with our needles at the ready.
Intellectually you are stagnating and have become very boring. Nothing new to offer or discuss. Articles, fine, if I can be bothered to read them, but shan't comment anymore. Enjoy .. and needles are ready : ).
Re: Has the poltroon apologised for winning yet? NM
I was giving the response I thought Keith would give if someone else had posted the article. He has often described Corbyn as a poltroon and mocked him for being overly apologetic.
Though I share the misgivings of others about his leadership qualities, I have always defended him - on this board and elsewhere - as a man, a fundamentally decent man doing his level best for his constituents and his fellow citizens of these islands and, indeed, of the world, given his support for the Palestinians and his opposition to US-led imperialist wars.
I think the way he has been treated by the Labour Party is absolutely disgusting. Accusations of antisemitism are totally unfounded. Those making such accusations can only be motivated by malice or cynicism.
In short, I believe he is much more sinned against than sinning.
I am glad he has been deservedly re-elected.
When Corbyn's name comes up on this board it is usual for Keith to make a derogatory comment. I used to reply but then gave up with a shrug.
On this occasion, I got in first with what I thought was gentle ribbing.
That was obviously a mistake. Mea culpa.
Re: Has the poltroon apologised for winning yet? NM
The facts are contrary: that 40% are those who failed to "turn out".
Otherwise the very idea that somehow you or they (including myself this time) actually "won" something by not voting is merely your own " feelgod" imagination pretending rorschach smears are somehow deeply meaningful.
You can project anything at all politically on non-voters: as they never voted it's an evidence free zone and a free-for-all game.
A choice isn't a failure.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Re: Logic? Oh dear
Posted by Ken Waldron on July 8, 2024, 1:41 am, in reply to "Logic? Oh dear"
"A choice isn't a failure."
Oh dear...and you're the guy who bandies "sophistry" about as a criticism too...?
Your claim was "Turnout"
...Which is exactly what they didn't do. Whether they "chose" not to turn out or otherwise is irrelevant: some may, some may not have, but 40% failed to do so.
A 40% "non turnout" can't be made into a 40% "turnout".
As above, you're dealing in fantasy: filling in a lacunae with imaginary content.
Re: Logic? Oh dear
Posted by Keith-264 on July 8, 2024, 8:01 am, in reply to "Re: Logic? Oh dear"
How fatuous of you, is it that difficult to see abstention as a choice?The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Re: Logic? Oh dear
Posted by Ken Waldron on July 8, 2024, 10:39 am, in reply to "Re: Logic? Oh dear"
-The fatuity is all yours clearly.
Failure to vote is a lacuna: you dont even know if each case was or was not deliberate abstention.
After confusing the two where you presume all belong to a deliberate course of action...you then imply common motive which you furthermore manifest as an achievement: a "win".
This is all you...spinning your imagination from thin air and several steps removed from any factual basis. It's otherwise known as fantasy.
- Trans-women ARE women... Non-voters ARE voters etc.
But it must be true because..."feelings..." right?
Re: Logic? Oh dear
Posted by Keith-264 on July 8, 2024, 3:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Logic? Oh dear"
People choose to vote, ergo they choose not to. You are as unable to infer people's reasons for voting as you are to infer people's reasons for abstaining. This isn't complicated. The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Re: Logic? Oh dear
Posted by Ken Waldron on July 8, 2024, 5:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Logic? Oh dear"
"This isn't complicated."
Uh huh...why do you keep falling at the first hurdle then?
"People choose to vote, ergo they choose not to."
No Keith it's even simpler: People vote or don't.
"You are as unable to infer people's reasons for voting as you are to infer people's reasons for abstaining."
And again at the second hurdle...you are presuming all non-votes are reasoned & deliberate "abstentions": we've been through this twice now: see above.
You could go on again for the hat-trick to repeat your claim that they did so for reasons that makes them collectively " winners"...but I'm assuming you have at least worked out the folly of falling at the third hurdle too and dropped that one.
Re: Logic? Oh dear
Posted by Keith-264 on July 8, 2024, 6:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Logic? Oh dear"
Non sequitur, go to the back of the class.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Re: Logic? Oh dear
Posted by Ken Waldron on July 8, 2024, 7:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Logic? Oh dear"
I don't think this will work. These candidates are all very disparate people, and you won't have to scratch them very hard to find some deeper philosophical and political contentions. The name "independent" sort of gives it away. The query as for Corbyn is whether Starmer would wish to reinstate the party whip to keep the opposition pinioned as it were. and whether Corbyn would accept or he'd be happier and freer in his independent state. In regard to "Father of the House" this is not certain, apparently there's a totally unknown Tory who came into Parliament on the same day, but was a few new MPs ahead of him in taking the Oath of Allegiance.
In regard to GG, not so surprised he failed to hold on to his seat, facing an experienced and local candidate for Labour. GG got his protest vote, and like a meteor flashing across the sky, came rapidly to earth rather burnt out. As I've mentioned before I've found his bombast very hard to take, perhaps the electorate felt the same. . In his interview with Piers Morgan he went deep down the rabbit hole of conspiracy with the Bucha massacre. Now I have no idea what actually happened here, but neither does he,, and he'd have been wiser to keep his council. There'll be few in the House of Commons who'll miss him, though personally I would still have liked him to have been there - one less hypocrite in a house of 650 (-minus a few other honourable mentions of course) .
However many these points in regard to the shaky nature of Starmer's huge majority have been made elsewhere, in the face of all the huge converging issues facing the country,. even David Dimbleby sort of inferred that in the interview he gave which I've posted here. .
The idea that the Tories would merge with Reform? Some Tories will no doubt defect, but I believe there are still enough Tories to find that idea totally repugnant, and would never do so, it would magnify the split and that would be their final demise.
Hope is what keeps one invested in a broken system, preventing us from moving beyond its constraints
'More or less all of us yammer on more or less endlessly about hope. You wouldn’t believe — or maybe you would — how many magazine editors have asked me to write about the apocalypse, then enjoined me to leave readers with a sense of hope. But what, precisely, is hope? At a talk I gave last spring, someone asked me to define it. I turned the question back on the audience, and here’s the definition we all came up with: hope is a longing for a future condition over which you have no agency; it means you are essentially powerless.
I’m not, for example, going to say I hope I eat something tomorrow. I just will. I don’t hope I take another breath right now, nor that I finish writing this sentence. I just do them. On the other hand, I do hope that the next time I get on a plane, it doesn’t crash. To hope for some result means you have given up any agency concerning it. Many people say they hope the dominant culture stops destroying the world. By saying that, they’ve assumed that the destruction will continue, at least in the short term, and they’ve stepped away from their own ability to participate in stopping it.
I do not hope coho salmon survive. I will do whatever it takes to make sure the dominant culture doesn’t drive them extinct. If coho want to leave us because they don’t like how they’re being treated — and who could blame them? — I will say goodbye, and I will miss them, but if they do not want to leave, I will not allow civilization to kill them off.
When we realize the degree of agency we actually do have, we no longer have to “hope” at all. We simply do the work. We make sure salmon survive. We make sure prairie dogs survive. We make sure grizzlies survive. We do whatever it takes.
When we stop hoping for external assistance, when we stop hoping that the awful situation we’re in will somehow resolve itself, when we stop hoping the situation will somehow not get worse, then we are finally free — truly free — to honestly start working to resolve it. I would say that when hope dies, action begins.'Tell your story; Ask a question; Interpret generously http://storybythethroat.wordpress.com/tell-ask-listen/
Re: Hope is what keeps one invested in a broken system, preventing us from moving beyond its constraints
Thanks for the thoughtful analysis etc. by Jensen. I made notes on both vid and the particle. One silly one to respond to: There is no hope, A: because there is no plan?
John Monro: experienced and local candidate for Labour
Paul Waugh is local (born in Rochdale but works in London) but not experienced politically. This was his first attempt to my knowledge.
Said the following before on the board. The Tories took a leaf from the Republicans playbook, as formulated by Karl Rove, in that you attack your opponent at their strongest, not weakest point.Which seems counter-intuitive. So they went for Corbyn as "anti-semitic" despite the fact his record was as a life-long and outspoken anti-racist. Of course they had all the weight and financial support of the Israeli embassy behind them, which they banked on, plus all the media except the Morning Star. The Guardian and its stable of columnists did little if nothing at all to defend JC.
Once they had skewered Corbyn on this lie, and got him all in a dither trying to defend himself, the rest was easy. As we all know, and it was very clear at the time, he and McDonnell made the fundamental and fatal error of trying to mollify and appease their zionist enemies, speaking of "rooting out" anti-Semitism in the party that didn't exist. I well remember screaming at the telly when McDonnell came out with this, knowing the zionists would be rubbing their hands with glee. And to compound their utter failure to deal with the charge, they then left Walker, Livingstone, Williamson, Greenstein et al up the fucking creek without a fucking paddle. That's what keith is angry about, and so am I.
I saw it coming
Posted by Keith-264 on July 6, 2024, 7:07 pm, in reply to "On GG and Corbyn"
and told everyone so. It wasn't a popular point of view and still isn't. Quite why people wouldn't believe the evidence of their eyes and ears was beyond me.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
Re: On GG and Corbyn
Posted by Ed on July 7, 2024, 4:00 am, in reply to "On GG and Corbyn"
Can't stab you in the back if you are not running away.
on July 5, 2024, 8:49 pm
