Recreational fishers could have their daily snapper catch slashed from nine to just three fish in Auckland and the upper North Island.
The drastic proposal is part of plans to save the snapper population which has collapsed alarmingly in the waters around Auckland, the Bay of Plenty and Northland.
It has fanned widespread anger among thousands of recreational fishers, who are outraged there is little change to commercial quotas.
Posted by Phill on 28/7/2013, 6:48 pm, in reply to "Snapper Limits." Tackle Tactics
One of the local clubs is having Nathan Guy as a speaker on the 20th of next month . The question will be asked if this policy will creep south . It's already having an economic effect with cancelled boat orders.
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by mowerman on 28/7/2013, 7:12 pm, in reply to "Snapper Limits."
Hi Guys,Im mowerman (Wayne Greenwood )
I would suggest you guys get very active very fast where ever you are or you wont be allowed to catch snapper..Im an active member on www.fishing.net.nz
Protest action is called for ..attend your MPI meetings and stand up for your rights.. or you will be eating brought fish !!
Before this subject gets into politics, can members please supply some factual evidence that can be taken on board before going overboard.
Would members kindly report on how many snapper they would estimate they caught on rod and line, also kontikis, powered, or wind assisted, if they use them.
Would someone from the Pania club, please report how many Snapper were actually brought to the scales on club competitions during this past season.
Being retired I fish quite regularly, I always use two rods with near sixty years experience I know how to fish well. I hate to confess but there are times I also use an electric torpedo carrying a full compliment of twenty-five hooks. Yes, I am one of those anglers who are regularly condemned as being responsible for decimating the Hawke's Bay snapper stock. In the last year I have caught no snapper on rod and line, and no snapper on the torpedo. Tatal snapper catch ... Nil.
Wayne, most of us who fish from the beach, when we want a snapper for dinner, we already have to buy it. $48.00 a kilo in Pak and Save this morning.
The article states that in the area where limits are suggested for change, snapper are at a very low number, well here in the Bay as far as I am concerned, they are bloody non existent.
Am I alone in being continually frustrated at watching Sinclair, Thomas and co, continually showing boat angling in the Manikau, or wherever, giving the public the general impression snapper are being slaughtered on rod and line, all around New Zealand? They are not. In fact for the majority of the coastline south of the Bay of Plenty they [snapper] are bloody difficult to locate, and only form a tiny percentage of our bag. Just look at the charts put out by Naki, those contain the figures you should be looking at.
I will now sit back and wait for the flack, so what's new, it's about time somebody actually told it EXACTLY LIKE IT IS.
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by surfcasterbop on 29/7/2013, 1:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
Do you fish in the night Hangler?
Piscari Ergo Sum
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by Phill on 29/7/2013, 5:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits." Tackle Tactics
Night time works for me down this way . But it is a concern having the catch limit lowered so drastically , it would be nice to see the scientific evidence . When we have had the rare opportunity to fish in the Auckland area there seems to no shortage of snapper.and that was using those funny plastic things .
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by surfcasterbop on 29/7/2013, 8:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
Interesting question no. 21 about "Export Double" agenda, I'm hating on these people right now...
The cuts apply to the snapper one fishery which stretches from the top of the North Island to BOP. There is concern its a blueprint that over time will be applied to the rest of the country.
The snapper fishery has actually increased in biomass in this area in last few years to the point where it has reached MPI targets, however there is concern that this is not sustainable in the long term and so MPI want to boost snapper stocks to about 40% of biomass. Currently the snapper stocks sit at around 20% in the two key areas of Snapper 1.
The MPI believe that recreational fishers are taking 3365 tonnes per year which is more than there allocated quota of 2600 tonnes. Because of this MPI believes that recreational fishers should bear the brunt of any cuts in overall quota. This means a reduction in both bag limits and an increased size imit from 27 to 35cm. This guestimate of quota reduction appears to be based on two aerial surveys and follow up boat ramp surveys of an unknown percentage sample of the boats counted at sea. This research could be seen as very questionable given its lack of robustness.
There is growing anger that commercial and customary interests will not be required to take any cuts. Another key concern to those protesting is that there is AT LEAST an estimated 450 tonnes of fish mortality largely caused by commercial fishing practices that are damaging the juvenile snapper population. Both MPI and the commercial sector are ignoring this in there calculations and are not proposing any solutions to reduce this loss of population that appears to have a dramatic overall effect on biomass.
No ones arguing there shouldnt be cuts, just that the cuts get evenly shared through all sectors.
As far as snapper in HB are concerned, it depends where you fish. Around Mahia bag limits are achievable at certain times of the year. Around Napier snapper get caught regularly on certain beaches but not in huge numbers. Depends on the spot, tiem of year, the type of fishing you use and the quality of fisherman. The most Ive ever caught on rods at one time is 5 and that was about 5 years ago. Usually I pick up 1 or 2 per outing during Feb to April if I'm lucky. Varies from year to year. I also hear a lot of stories from the Bay View Kon tiki brigade of lines full of snapper in Feb, March, April. But who knows....
There are plenty of snapper in Hawkes Bay at the times the snapper are supposed to be here. And a few surprises as well.Change of light and before midnight seems to do it. The last few years have produced some trophy fish for Pania club members. The boat fishers do well all summer and most torpedo fishers boast about the snapper they catch. A reduction in commercial effort seems logical. Seems no one is game to release any hard data. Bet they do before the election though! The snapper don't know where the car park is! Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by Phill on 29/7/2013, 9:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits." Tackle Tactics
these govt departments need a kick in the balls , 1080 sandwiches anyone they are perfectly safe .
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by Naki-Fisher on 29/7/2013, 9:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
This doesn't look good lads and lasses. These fukers need there heads read, as with most of our industry's, export as much as possible and screw the locals into paying elevated prices for our natural resources. We are paying far to much for Meat, Dairy, Timber, even rubbish for that matter. This sucks
I know these homos have lots of money thrown at them for doing these sorts of study's and have all spent years at Uni been taught what the BS in the books say and lack in practical experience. One thing I am beginning to learn with all my study and collection of data is fish as most species have cycles i.e good years and bad, this goes for spawning groth and catch rates and each year the species can change i.e. this year the snapper count could be down but the Gurnard or Kingfish could be up. Weather pattens, moon phases, tidal flows etc. all effect this. if I know this as a dumb ass with no uni experience these idiots will differently know this and can dictate the results to clearly show whatever they like. If you looked at 2007 snapper fishing was booming and compare it to a couple of years later it was flat. 2011 was a good year and this year (2013) has been a little slow, but we have picked up a few snapper in winter, in places you wouldn't normally. Things move and change we may have a better winter than other years next year could be a complete shocker followed by 2015 been a boomer. A wise man once said to me when something doesn't seem right, Think about this: Who is most likely to benefit from this and why?? should they benefit from this?? If stocks are improving why make such a radical change?
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by Naki-Fisher on 29/7/2013, 9:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
Posted by Phill on 29/7/2013, 11:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits." Tackle Tactics
This National govt does not and will not listen to the public ,look at its recent past record. NZ fishers are in outrage as they should be . I will be interesting to hear Nathan Guy bullshit his way out of the questions that will be levelled at him at the Waiterere club meeting .
As he is already pre-judged, he will be wasting his time turning up. I haven't heard Labour, or the Green's ideas yet, although regarding the Greens they would probably have fishing banned altogether.
Why not give the man credit a little credit for having the courage to front up and face those concerned? This is more than past ministers have ever done.
I note only one contributor, Rex, has been prepared to put a number on the total amount of snapper he caught this past season, but without knowing roughly how many times he fished, it is hard to work out the approximate total take.
Gary took his highly predictable poke at those who fish with torpedoes, but having carried out some considerable research locally with torpedo fishers, the snapper count by most is well under two dozen each for the season. As most are retired they hit the beaches often as they have the time to do so.
If cutting back the snapper limit does help put a few more fish in the Bay, then I see no reason why anglers shouldn't offer a little support. Three is somewhat drastic but that is the way negotiation works. With a common sense approach a limit can probably be achieved at six fish. Should that be so, just how many anglers on this site fishing from the beach catch half a dozen snapper a day? Not many, although one recent report showed a picture of a maximum kill of nine fish, which was highly praised. But even that tends to completely fly in the face of the angler's slogan, limit your kill, don't kill your limit.
I don't think i am reading the same things as the rest of you guys on here. To me this reads as a review and there hasn't been one since the quota management was put in place. Everything you read on there points to the fact there is more rec fishers now, with better gear i might add to, since 1997. With nearly a third of NZ's population living and fishing in one area, its bound to be up for DISCUSSION. Personal i think changes do need to be made but unfortunately the SNA1 area is so large it makes it a lot harder to manage. I think a limit of 3 snapper per person from August till Xmas time would be every good, then open it back up after that to where we are now, and a sizes increase to 35 possible even 40cm would be ideal, as this would give the younger fish a good 2 to 3 years at spawning. Alleviate a bit of pressure off the spawning fish. I personally don't think they will change anything as its to close to election time to piss off half the country's voters. Up here in the bay Hangler you can catch your limits a the right time of year, think i did on about 6 occasions this year. Nothing of which went to waste, my neighbors take all the heads and frames and we would eat fish 3 nights that week. I am limited to when i can get out so a big bag reduction would mean that i would be eating a lot less fish. I don't eat frozen fish so all is consumed fresh, and if there is any extra it goes to my mates mum who is in her 80's and cant get out fishing. So good luck to all of you guys fighting this
Where and what did this "considerable research locally" consist of Hangler. While I don't doubt there are a lot of retired kontiki owners, most of them I see don't seem to be retired at all, I observe plenty of young guys, whole family's etc pulling up at the beach with Kontiki in tow. As a matter of fact I had a 2 family group pull up next to me at Bay View on our last Brass Monkey day. Talking with him he freely acknowledged catching quite an abundance of Snapper during the summer months. However it seems he was also prepared to put in the hours and not be home in time to watch the 6pm news...
And to back up what was earlier stated, there is plenty of Snapper during Summer in the Bay. Although I didn't fish Whirinaki reef last season you could fish there at times and catch your limit within a couple of hours... sure maybe not trophy fish but all legal sized ones (Club size, not MoF). I also caught Snapper last season (Sorry didn't keep a tally of how many), as Rex said if you are prepared to put in the hard yards, maybe drive a little to fish beaches that produce better numbers of fish then you will do ok, maybe not every time but they are there. Certainly better than sitting along Marine Parade wondering why you aren't catching any
The goal of 40% biomass of snapper is a really worthy one, but the fight is over how you get there. If the government acts responsibly and democratically and shares the load of quota cuts I see a bright positive future for the snapper one fishery.
But I have little faith that Hanglers golfing mate and his little spin doctored clones will do the right thing. But I'll be happy to be proved wrong.
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by GrantBOP on 30/7/2013, 11:31 am, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
Here is some more to think about, Charter boats also make up recreational catches, some of these are based in and fish the Hauraki Gulf and the Firth of Thames, which is apparently where our main fish stocks come from for SNA1. If these boats carried on average 8 fishers, and get out on average 200 days of the year and average 5 fish per person that's 8000 fish per boat per year. Thats fish not weights to so you guys can do the math on that one, and when the fishing's hot you don't be keeping anything little so they could be averaging a kilo n a half plus(its actually called high grading and its a legal but its to hard to police now that so much catch and release is done.) Now remember that these guys can get out and fish a whole lot more times than that of anyone on an open coast line and that there favorite time to be fishing is the work ups in spring as the fish get ready to spawn. Add to that a third of NZ's population having access to that and friends and family with boats doing the same on the weekends and the way the population is growing and you really do start to see why something needs to be done. Personal i think charter boat operators do need to be put under the commercial tag as they are making a living off this. This in turn would drop the estimated recreational catch down ten fold. Just something more to think about, but how you get the government to look at all the different scenarios and then work it out i don't know as the MPI makes the proposals that get reviewed.
I caught a total of 5 Snapper last summer. All in the 30-35cm range. That's more than I've ever caught before. All but one were caught at Mohaka or Whakaki. The most I've ever caught in one outing was three.
I guess I've never been in the right place when a school of them come by. This is what I believe happens when you hear of people catching their limit. It's a case of being in the right place at the right time. In Napier that would be a freak event, rather than the norm. I'd count myself very lucky to catch one or two in an outing at a local Napier beach.
However, if one day I strike it lucky and encounter a hot snapper bite, I'll be really disappointed if I could only take three. Especially after the expense of driving 100+ Km etc.
Grant is right, charter boats should be under commercial take.
I don't think the Gov't has taken into account the amount of money the recreational fishing sector spends on fishing. I know my own figures, and its pretty scary really. (approx $100 for every kg of fish taken home)http://www.paniasurfcasting.org http://www.surfcaster.co.nz
Predictable maybe Hangler but worthy of discussion. You cant just ignore torpedo fishers and say they catch few snapper. Get off the Marine Parade and go and meet some of the real keen torpedo fishers that work the beaches to the north of Napier. Go to Mohaka in the spawning season and see the carnage that happens there with torpedoes every year. Your mates at the Drain are not typical. Many others are fishing at night. One guy I spoke to who had a trailer set up for his torpedo fishing told me he only fished at night and that if people knew how many snapper he caught then torpedoes would be banned. He caught five when I watched all over 5kgs. Torpedoes aside the Hauraki fishery, the Kaipara, BOI and waters to the north are all vulnerable to overfishing for snapper. By many methods recreational and commercial. I like the idea of a larger minimum size (say 40cms) but I would like some facts released on snapper spawning sizes before any changes are made. Surely they have to give us some data to justify their moves. Have the decision makers checked out the sizes of mature snapper. Do the big ones (over 10kgs) have a part in the spawning process? Do the little ones (under a kilo) have a part in it? Other than future potential. How about restricting commercial snapper fishing to the longline fishery where fish can be targetted and released if undersized or unwanted.
Hangler, I am not having a go at you its just that you seem so definite as if there is no other way than yours and that anything others say doesnt count. You must agree that there is a lot more to Hawkes Bay and snapper fishing than the Marine Parade in Napier. Have a look around at the spots where the snapper are common. As Andy said, Whirinaki Reef, also Te Awanga Reef and Straight, Araparanui, Waipatiki Mohaka, The Gap at Westshore, Waikare or even the boiler at Westshore. Not all great snapper spots are a long way off. If you accept that the "Bay" is Kidnappers to Mahia then you must also take in the beaches of Whakaki, Tahainui and Blacks beach as well as all the rock spots from Mahia to Portland. There are plenty of places for a snapper to hide. Anyone who makes the effort can catch a few snapper every year, maybe not a dozen a day every day but then who wants to do that.The snapper don't know where the car park is! Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.
Funny you should mention that Gary. A portion of my 2000 word submission on this subject.
"As regards recreational fishers it is noted that the ministry still allows long lines in the form of boat long lines (no more than 2 per boat) and kon tiki long lines with 25 hooks. Why not reduce the number of hooks these long lines are able to use to say 10 hooks. This would surely help in reducing recreational TAC numbers and mortality. Better still ban long lines from recreational boats altogether. These seem unnecessary in a time of fish finders and modern rods and reels. "
Thought I'd pop that in the submission for old Hangler to seethe over .
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by surfcasterbop on 31/7/2013, 12:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
Here you go Hangler... Snapper tally to date: '08/'09=x4, '09/'10=x4, '10/'11=x2, '11/'12=x13, '12/'13=x14. I estimate between September and July I traveled to the beach 18-20 times and only once did I catch x4 snapper in a session, usually only x1 plus other species. I have kontiki owning neighbors (couple sans kids) that got 68 snapper last summer. Nice people, but Im pretty sure whose putting pressure on my inshore fishery...Piscari Ergo Sum
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by GrantBOP on 31/7/2013, 12:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
Ease up there mate, i can assure you i would of caught allot more than that surf-casting and in my books this has been a bad year, due to work commitments and having become a dad. But i also know allot of kontiki guys that catch allot less than that and some that are out there raping it, within the law of course. I also know of surf-casters who constantly get 5 plus snapper a trip and they are generally out more than once or twice a week to. We need to stop passing the buck onto others, and release we all play our part in n this. How you been anyway and hows the alvey reel holding up. Haven't seen you round since the casting day last October.
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by surfcasterbop on 31/7/2013, 3:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
Been awesome, the bubs are growing up so Im getting out a bit more. My eldest has just turned 5 so the constant birthday parties might calm down a bit and I can actually get out for a weekend club fish! Are you going to thursdays SNA1 public meeting at the coastguard, might see you there?Piscari Ergo Sum
Haha i here ya. I actually missed a few club weekends myself this year, for the 1st time n 5 years. If ya looking for some where to fish over the next few months try about 800 meters to ya left of the car park at Rogers road. Try fishing from low up on the change of light into the dark, and don't be put off you not getting to many bites as it seems to be the way when the bigger ones are around. Or PM me if you want to sort out a mish together down that way some time Unfortunately i wont be able to make the meeting tonight, on night shift at work this week. So hopefully you can get all the good stuff and share it on here for us tomorrow.
Re: Snapper Limits.
Posted by surfcasterbop on 1/8/2013, 8:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Snapper Limits."
From the conversations had reducing the recreational catch limit is not MPI's preferred option. Here's hoping...Piscari Ergo Sum
Personally I am all for having the limit cut to half, but I want to see a substantial reduction from the commercial sector also. This would be common sense.
As for the HB fishery. Snapper numbers are on the lower side, but there are multiple reasons. I am not blaming kontikis but technology is getting better and playing a huge part, so things do need addressing all round.
Hangler, with all your experience and superb fish catching ability, it does beg the question as to why you would use a kontiki, I would also point out that over the past 12 months there has been multiple arguments from you stating HB fishery was in the prime........ Whats changed?
Any how, collectively across the board change is needed, not just for snapper but gurnard also which are worse off than snapper in the bay. Most of us are open to change, but we want to see it done fairly and not being built around gaining more quota for the commercial sector lining the government pockets.
Discussions are fine, but be realisticWairoa Hawkesbay
Having been involved quite deeply in this discussion with LegaSea, its interesting to hear what many here have to say.
For some of you the result of this proposal as it stands will have little effect on you directly, right? WRONG. For ALL of us it has a large effect. So, lets look at it in terms of what we can really do here.
MPI claim they have a target of 40% of original, unfished biomass. Currently, Northland stands at 24%, Hauraki Gulf stands at 19% and and BoP stands at a staggering 6%, with an overall average of 20% throughout all of SNA1.
The current interpretation of this by MPI is that as recreational catch has increased and exceeded allowance set in the 1990s, this is the cause of lack of gain of stock levels. Information was gathered by conducting a 6000 participant telephone survey, boat ramp survey and spotter plane collection of boat numbers over the area in question.
Recreational, as a whole reject the proposals in whole as set out by MPI. Not one of the 3 proposals benefit recreational at all. In every case recreational allowance is reduced, and one option reduces that by a full 30%, and offers an increase in commercial catch by 7%. Past reductions in recreational allowance have been sold to commercial as quota, and that appears to be part of the deal here.
Minister Nathan Guy was invited to attend a public meeting to discuss these options and the result of that was a response from the minister "It would be inappropriate to engage in public debate". Instead a group of MPI representatives have been tasked with the job of presenting a display type drop in meeting where one on one discussions can be had with these representatives. At no stage was it possible for them to address the entire audience and the entire thing seemed somewhat pointless. These drop in meetings were met by people expecting to be able to ask questions, and instead were left feeling cheated.
LegaSea have since created a series of meetings where they intend to discuss this issue with an audience. There are many of these meetings taking place throughout SNA1.
It is widely accepted that commercial fishing has a large affect on snapper numbers. It is also accepted that recreational fishing has an affect also. The issue is that the additional capture and slaughter of juvenile snapper is believed to be at 450 tonne, with an error of margin of a further 15%. On top of this it is widely accepted that dumping of high graded catch occurs. None of this catch is recorded as part of quota. Deemed catch is in excess of quota. So, when we consider the additional catch we arrive at a staggering discovery. Commercial have poor practice methods that require addressing in the form of monitoring and a system that requires honesty and transparency. When economic figures take precedence over the ecological effect these practices are having on the fishery then we see that there is very definitely a problem, and recreational should not, and will not take responsibility for practices in an industry that decimated the stock to begin with in the 80s and then continue with poor techniques that are not in any way in the interests of sustaining the fishery.
So, what do we do about it? We, as the people of New Zealand make a stand against what we know is wrong. We join LegaSea, a recognised voice for recreational fishermen is advocacy, education and action. We make a contribution in support and we make a submission so that we as recreational fishermen have a loud, combined and recognised voice.
You can join LegaSea at www.legasea.co.nz, and either make your own submission to MPI, or if you agree with what LegaSea say then sign their submission electronically at
This is our one chance to show the minister just how strong a voice recreational is. If you choose to sit and do nothing, you stand to lose much more than you ever believed possible.
Its disapointing to see that the Minister has no interest in meeting recreational fishers. To busy appeasing the Chinese and well to do farmers I guess. But he will advise you the peasants of his decision in due course.
What a GUY lol. Good luck Legasea you'll need it. At least my submission is in. I even got an email from my local MP assuring me all is in hand and that the Minister will do his best for all concerned.
It would be arrogance for this ministry to ignore the voice of recreational anglers. The submissions from LegaSea's site alone have surpassed 7000 submissions and climbing. The push is on.
on 28/7/2013, 10:31 am
