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Vauxhall Zafira 1.6 Z16XE 2003 - Cutting out - Fixed #

Posted by Shane Gray on June 27, 2012, 10:07 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2003
Engine Size and Code *: 1.6 z16xe
( Optional ) Scanner Used: Mach vci

Hi

Had this one in after someone else. The car will run for approx 30mins then cut out and will not start again in til 5/10mins.. Another garage have replace crank sensor. Coil pack, mass air flow, O2 sensor. I read codes and am getting ecu processor fault, ecu not programmed, immobilizer not programmed with ecu.
I done all basic tests like check earths and powers look at live data.i took the gamble of testing ecu with the ecu doctor but all tests were fine. I forgot to mention there is a slight misfire at idle as well.
I done an low amp test on injectors thinking one could be spiking ecu but all tested OK.
Any help would be appreciated and I'm new to using a picoscope so be patient with me. (in training)
Thank in advance
Thanks Shane

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 27, 2012, 11:11 pm, in reply to "Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Mark Carter

Hi,
I would start by getting another scan tool on the vehicle.

Then look at what you "lose" when it will not start.

Spark ? Fuel ? Comms with ECU ?

Post your findings and move forward.

Regards

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2012, 8:05 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Shane Gray

Hi mark,
Sorry forget to say when it cuts out there is no comms to ecu. When it starts again the comms are back. Had another machine on it and same codes. All readings in tolerance when running.
Shane

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Paul Howd on June 28, 2012, 8:56 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Message modified by board administrator June 30, 2012, 10:51 am

I had one like this a couple of years back. the loss of comms was the clue! It did turn out to be an ECU fault which was confirmed and fixed by ACtronics.

In My case, the trick was to "Catch it in the act" while monitoring the electrical supplies to the ECU to establish that the dead ECU wasnt because of a faulty supply relay/whatever.

Good luck!

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2012, 9:05 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Mark Carter

Piggyback a couple of bulbs into the supplies and watch them when it cuts out.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Simon Kefford <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3159' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 28, 2012, 8:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Simon Kefford

ECU doctor mmm? Try someone else...

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 29, 2012, 7:40 am, in reply to "Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Shane Gray

Hi,
I,m sending ecu off to bba reman for second opinion. Have to remove immobilizer ring and send key. Ecu doctor didn't need these.
Shane

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 29, 2012, 8:12 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Sean McGettigan

'I,m sending ecu off to bba reman for second opinion'

Thats started my day off with a laugh

.
Save yourself £50 and toss a coin for good/bad, the odds will be better than BBA getting it right.

Regards
Sean

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Paul Howd on June 29, 2012, 8:56 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Message modified by board administrator June 30, 2012, 10:51 am

###Piggyback a couple of bulbs into the supplies and watch them when it cuts out. ###

Oh for the good old days when you could get breakout boxes!

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 29, 2012, 9:05 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Mark Carter

The best test bench is the vehicle.

It sounds like either a supply issue or an ECU.

>>> Piggyback a couple of bulbs into the supplies and watch them when it cuts out. <<<

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 29, 2012, 8:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Shane Gray

Thanks boys, I'll wait for bba results. Hope it's good news.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 30, 2012, 5:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Tony Sefton

hmmmmmm. This Could be a faulty ecu with those fault codes "BUT" Alarm bells would start ringing as soon as I heard that the other garage had fitted a coil pack.

First thing with that job would be to check What spark plugs are fitted ( Make sure they are the correct resisor plugs and not japanese ), But More likely than that, Has a Non genuine coil pack been fitted. ???

I have had several Vectra's in with non genuine coil packs fitted, On Questioning the customer, The Coil packs were fitted to cure a misfire and as soon as the new coil packs were fitted, The Cars started cutting out and logging Spurious codes such as "REPLACE ECU" and "IMMOBILISER FAULT" One Vectra had even had a used ecu kit fitted by the previous garage due to the Fault codes and it didn't cure the problem and the car cut out exactly the same and loggeed "REPLACE ECU".

A New Delphi coil pack cured the problem.

I Would Very rarely send an ecu for testing as all you are doing is wasting time and your money. ( Or your customers money ) and the Test results are rarely trustworthy. Theres Nothing worse than having the ecu condemned and buying a replacement only to find out that the car still has the same problem with the replacement ecu or being told its OK only to waste hours re-testing to find out that the ecu has an intermittent fault that was not picked up by the ecu Testers.

I Always Test On the Vehicle and make a Decision, If your Unsure , Its as cheap to buy a used Kit rather than wasting money on testing. Plus if You fix it with the kit the Jobs done and If the same fault is present then its unlikely to be an ecu fault and at least you have a spare kit for the next Astra that comes in.

H.T.H Tony.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 30, 2012, 5:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Tony Sefton

Ohhhhh. Just thinking again, Also the "SLIGHT MISFIRE AT IDLE" also ties in with my theory, And The other thing that springs to mind is Common sense thinking about Testing supplies and earths to the ecu in the case is not proof of the ecu being faulty because you have lost Comms to the ecu. You Can still have all your lives and earths to the ecu, The ecu appears Dead and suddenly comes back to life after several minutes of being left to cool off. Its all down to Electrical interference.

P,S I Might also be talking coblers.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 30, 2012, 8:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Shane Gray

Thanks for that help, the ecu is already in the post.
I did think about interference that's way I tested injectors.
I have checked spark plugs and they are correct for engine code. They are NGk plugs! I even done compression test because of misfire. Maybe I should scope coil pack if ecu passes test. What is the best way to test the pack with the scope, do I just scope the primary wire for each cylinder. Any help would be appreciated as I,m new to using picoscope .
Shane

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 30, 2012, 10:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Kevin Apps

Shane.

"What spark plugs are fitted ( Make sure they are the correct resisor plugs and not japanese )"

Kev.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 30, 2012, 11:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Tony Sefton

Hi Shane, I don't know if this type of fault will show up on a scope or not. ?? Perhaps some of the More Qualified Scope guys could answer that one, ( I use the scope very basically ) I would think it could if you know what your looking for and have a decent scope. ??

If the Coil pack hasn't got a decent name stamped on it then I would just try a new Delphi one, I Used to Bin NGK plugs at every opportunity due to lots of problems but I haven't had many problems with them recently. ( But I Would still try a set of Bosch ones if the coil pack doesn't cure it.

It Will be interesting to See What BBA say about your ECU too.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 1, 2012, 1:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Shane Gray

The NGk ones fitted are the ones with resistors. But I will try genuine vaux ones and coil pack too if no joy with bba.
I have always fitted NGk plugs for years and nether had any problems as long as they are capped correctly!
Thanks for advice .
One thing in this trade is that you learn everyday and I have been doing it for 20 yrs !
Shane.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Alan Ganter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3444' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 1, 2012, 5:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Alan Ganter

It will probably come back "no fault Found"

If it does, fit it back on the car , Run it until it cuts out then blast the airline at the ECU pins
to cool them down. If it restart`s straight away you would of found your fault.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 4, 2012, 8:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Shane Gray

Hi all
A quick update, bba rang this morning and said ecu is faulty and they can't fix it. To supply new one will be £500, I've left choice with customer.
I will let you know when back on car.
Thanks

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Ian Slattery <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1196' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 4, 2012, 8:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Ian Slattery

Have you priced it up at vauxhall?

You will need a tech2 or a mdi with global tis to program a new ecu.

You also have a option of secondhand [ If its been reset ] I think op com can program a secondhand one.

Regards Ian

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 4, 2012, 10:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Tony Sefton

Trouble is now, 1 Tester says its OK, No fault found, Another Tester now says its faulty.

That would leave me with too much doubt, Who's right, Who's wrong. ??

Is the First Tester not testing them properly, ?? Is the second Tester Trying to make a quick Buck ( or £500 Bucks )

Unless another ecu is fitted, You may never know the truth.

This is why you have to make a decision on the vehicle and then stick your neck out and buy the part that you think is faulty. ( you will never be 100% sure, but you can be 90% if youve done a reasonable amount of testing.

Best part about GM is they are Popular and if you fit a part and it doesn't cure it, You can fit it on the next one that comes in.

Try Autovaux on 01924 376003 for a new ecu.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 5, 2012, 8:18 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Lee Mackintosh

Try Allvox for a 2nd hand reset unit as they are known good test run ecu's.

Allvox
01773 541174

Good people to deal with

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 5, 2012, 1:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Mark Carter

>>> Good people to deal with <<<

I will second that.

Mark

PS. You will need either vauxcom or Tech 2/ MDI to code it in

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 5, 2012, 4:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Lee Mackintosh

I think Texa Navigator may even beable to re-install a used unit from the same model type. I know it can reset the original unit so must beable to re-install one.

Allvox may even beable to flash program the ecu so you only need to worry about the immobiliser side.

Give them a call as they are the experts.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 9, 2012, 9:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Shane Gray

Hi again,
Customer has supplied a secondhand one which I will fit in morning. It has come with the immoblizer ring will I only have to programme key?
Shane

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 9, 2012, 9:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Mark Carter

I think you will need a new "chip" for the key (I'm assuming that it an Immo 2 setup)

The "kit" you have got did not come with a key ?

Other people will know more than me about this setup.

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by lee mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 9, 2012, 11:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Lee Mackintosh

If you have no transpomder chip with the new immobiliser ecu and engine ecu then you'll need to apply for the car pass by plugging in both new ecu's and reading out the chassis number stored. Hopefully they should match.

With this info apply for pass, buy another chip and code in key.

The other way is to apply for car pass for replacement ecu (as before) then depending on your equipment reset new ecu once fitted with the code supplied.

Then with the cars original (car with fault) security code select immobiliser, security code & enter code (original), programming functions, engine ecu installed.

This way will keep the existing key programmed and the cars correct security code in function for future diagnostic/coding work. If its successful you can alter the chassis number in the engine ecu to match the cars vin.

This is all depending on what equipment you have but this is mostly based on my experience with vaux-com so may vary.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 10, 2012, 11:04 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Mark Carter

The second option is the better one otherwise future coding will be a nightmare

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Fixed #

Posted by Shane Gray on July 12, 2012, 9:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out"
Message modified by board administrator July 16, 2012, 3:00 pm

Hi all,
Ecu came with little chip for key and immoblizer ring.
All worked and car doesn't cut out. Only problem is eml on because it's not programmed to car correctly. customer happy to ignore.
Thanks for help .
Shane

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed

Posted by lee mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 12, 2012, 9:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed"
Lee Mackintosh

If its all a matched set then what programming issues does it have as i thought they were all the same other than just variant codding which most decent diag tools should beable to alter.

Transmission type
A/C type
Steering system

and so on.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 12, 2012, 10:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed"
Mark Carter

P0605 by any chance?

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 17, 2012, 7:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed"
Shane Gray

Hi all,
Had it back in, programmed in vin and it thought it had auto box.
Light out now all good
Shane

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 17, 2012, 11:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed"
Kevin Apps

Shane
"and it thought it had auto box"

it does not think, it only knows what you have programmed into it.

Kev.

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 18, 2012, 8:52 am, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed"
Lee Mackintosh

But if you didn't know what type transmission the donor car was where the ecu came from and you forget to check every programming option then it can think its an auto.

Sometimes we all make mistakes and forget to check, i did once when i fitted an ecu to an Astra H.

Forgot to tell the ecu it had A/C.

thanks
lee

Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed

Posted by Shane Gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on July 18, 2012, 7:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Vaux zafira engine cuts out#fixed"
Shane Gray

Pitty where not all perfect !

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