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Bugger!

Posted by surfcasterbop <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=surfcasterbop' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/9/2013, 4:06 pm

Guess the comms will be rubbing their hands together...

Piscari Ergo Sum

Link: http://www.mpi.govt.nz/news-resources/news/minister-announces-changes-to-snapper-1-rules

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Naki-Fisher <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Naki-Fisher' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/9/2013, 4:15 pm, in reply to "Bugger!"

I think that is not to bad compared to what we could have had.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by racepics <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=racepics' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/9/2013, 4:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

The National Gov't must go!
Vote these assholes out of a job ASAP.
Vote for anyone except Key and his big business cronies.

http://www.paniasurfcasting.org
http://www.surfcaster.co.nz

Re: Bugger!

Posted by fin-nor <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=fin-nor' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/9/2013, 5:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Ok the cut down by 2 fish pp per day and increase to 30cm for size limit I am happy with, what I am pissed off with is the fact the commercial sector never got a cut in quota or an increase in size limit from 25cm but all they got is to be monitored a bit more closely that is totally screwed. Time for this to go to court as everything is in favor of the dirty commies who are responsible for this mess in the first place.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by SNAPPA NAPIER <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=SNAPPA+NAPIER' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/9/2013, 8:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

The drop will not solve the perceived decrease in the Snapper population. John Key and his Nats just love making the money while the everyday New Zealander gets shafted again. Our turn Next Central Fishery. The National Party can kiss my a HOLE!

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/9/2013, 10:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Excellent package, a well thought out strategy heading toward a 50/50 split between commercial fishermen and recreational anglers.

The small reduction in the daily limit means nothing to surfcasters who very rarely catch a nine limit bag, especially when most anglers only keep what they want and return the surplus. The small increase in the size limit again means very little, many of us already self impose a 30cm size limit anyway.

I like the idea on monitoring the commercial catch, and the fact they must move on if the majority of their catch is juvenile fish. This move is long overdue and will in part help stop the slaughter of small fish. I also like the idea this will be closely watched with the addition of camera surveillance of the catch. Moves such as this show the government is serious in their endeavours to keep the snapper stocks at sustainable levels. I must also praise the attempt to return large fish, those not holding the best commercial value.

Much of the logic in this document is thinking outside the square, something that has completely eluded previous administrations. Many of of ideas are new and innovative, credit should be given where it's due.

All in all this is a forward thinking document, well put together and covering both sides of the fishery. Primary Industries have obviously taken on board the majority of angler's submissions and should be given full credit for doing so. With previous governments it has taken court action to achieve a lesser result, nice to think those in government are actually listening.

Miracle overnight cures that made the commercial sector and the recreational sector happy, were never on the cards. However, all these small steps are securing a firm footing on the first rung of the ladder. Hopefully Primary Industries will be given the teeth to continue working along the same lines, it makes a change to have a government body that actually listens.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by fin-nor <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=fin-nor' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 17/9/2013, 11:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Would have been good to see the banning of bottom trawling as they did with set netting or come up with an alternative that would prevent destruction of the environment the fish live in. Ideally commercial fishing within 3km of the shoreline also needs to stop. but as you say hangler we have a foot in the first rung of the ladder commercial operators just need to start playing ball too before they have nothing to earn a living from.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by racepics <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=racepics' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 5:41 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

The commercial sector will not give an inch, and if forced to will probably litigate against the ministry. (They have deep enough pockets to do this as well)
You only need to read the latest spouting of BS from Eric Barratt, managing director of Sanfords to realise this.
The bottom line is they want to catch the most fish by the easiest (read cheapest) method, and that means dragging huge nets around, and to hell with the wastage.

http://www.paniasurfcasting.org
http://www.surfcaster.co.nz

Re: Bugger!

Posted by paulcs <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=paulcs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 8:17 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Looks good to me, 7 is more than enuff, I go with the minority and give it the thumbs up, after all, is Snapper the only species we catch? The humble KY may start gaining a little more deserved respect as an eating fish. Funny how the comms are whinging as well, I think we all need to take responsibility for the situation. No conspiracy theorist please!

Re: Bugger!

Posted by fin-nor <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=fin-nor' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 8:22 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

You are right Paul some stamp thier feet and have a tanty if they don't catch a snapper to me if I get KY or Trev and is a good sized one it will go in the smoker or fillets will be dipped in flour and fried in butter if they are not good eating size they go back unless they are bleeding or I need bait (while observing size limit for trevalley)I do not care if I do not get a snapper while fishing as long as I come home with a feed of other fish or some shellfish then I am happy.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by paulcs <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=paulcs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 8:27 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Yea Fin, prepared and cooked correctly KY is hard to beat on the plate, and no It shouldn't always be smoked!

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Tone <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Tone' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 8:37 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

I Agree the limit reduction wont affect us muc at present. Imagine though if the commercial catch size limit was also 30cms.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 8:50 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

The initial goal of this was to lift the snapper fishery to 40% biomass. This decision will NOT lead to this being achieved. You have a RIGHT to catch a feed of snapper and essentially your right has been eroded in deference to commercial profit.
I am also not convinced that GPS and cameras will reduce dumping which largely occurs in the dead of the night. Its just a red herring to try and appease the recreational lobby and persuade the public that the Government is doing something.
For those who are not happy to give up there rights I suggest a coastal coalition response is required. Advertisments, letter writing, billboards, pressure on MPs during election year.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 9:21 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Rex, I think you will find the average angler goes fishing for rest and relaxation, this to get away from political matters. As can be seen from the posts made so far, generally anglers are happy, mostly their fishing ambition is to simply take home a fish or two for their tea.

From all the doom and gloom messages posted on this message board suggesting cuts would be drastic, one would be forgiven for thinking that fishing was about to go down the gurgler. In fact if anything, fishing (surfcasting) in our area over recent times has been on the up. Somewhere the regulations governing the recreational catch and fish stocks, actually seem to be working.

With regard to you wishing for a coalition approach, with no rudeness intended, and to paraphrase William Shakespeare, "The gentleman doth protest too much.".

This is a sensible package, containing no hardship for anyone who wishes to catch a fish for their tea. It involves virtually no sacrifice by the recreational 'fisho' and should be given a chance to prove its worth.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by paulcs <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=paulcs' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 9:29 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Well put Hangler

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Tone <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Tone' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 10:26 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Hangler, with respect, to me it is about the equality of this decision. It is about rebuilding the fishery so recreationally and commercially we have something sustainable. The decision to allow one group to have a different size limit to another is, in my opinion, totally unfair.
I know that the Government is putting in measures to 'reduce' wastage from the commercial sector and good stuff too. But....Imagine if the wastage from commercial sector was reduced by 90%. No throwing back of anything. With this in mind vs. the cuts to Rec Angler limit, Where would you see the benefits lie?

Re: Bugger!

Posted by James HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=James+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 11:39 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

So Hangler will this package do as is the whole purpose of the cuts and increase the snapper biomass in SNA1?? I think not and anyone who says so is dillusional and should be committed to a nut house.

MPI has come out and said that we as rec fishers have overcaught our "Quota" by around 1000 tonne. Just one question.....where did they get their information?? They turned down the collated data from the HB gamefishing club competition weekends cause they weren't scientific!! Yet they won't stand by any of their "scientific information" and even put disclaimers in their position paper.
The fact that the recs have taken the cut and pretty much being blamed for the "dwindling stocks" is rubbish.

Where is this place?? "Somewhere the regulations governing the recreational catch and fish stocks, actually seem to be working".

And last but not least you must be a far superior fisherman to everyone in Hawkes Bay or seriously on the gin if you think the fishing in the bay is on the way up!!

No excuses, just get out there!!

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 3:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Hangler. I said at the finish of my last posting " for those who are not happy to give up there rights". My comment was not meant for you or anyone who supports this decision. It is for those who would to do more than sit around meekly acceptng the status quo.

Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, politics and fishing do mix and will continue to do so if anyone is to initiate change. In my view any forum is fair game to this end whether you and your rather small fan club like it or not.

My sense is that most of the people who posted are not, as you seem to think, a 100% happy with the decision. Some apparently are and good luck to them. In my opinion those fishermen who think like you are thankfully in the minority on this issue. If you believe otherwise then you need to get out more.

It seems to me Hangler that you are only happy to criticise those who don't agree with you. You certainly love having a go at me. I don't know why you bother. Unless I'm banned from here I'm not going to go away and I'm not going to stop expressing an opinion. If you don't like it, then don't read my posts.

I'm sure you'd be much happier chilling out on your Marine Parade possie anyway, watching the world go by and waiting for pension day. If your legacy to the fishery is reading the sonnets of William Shakespeare and rehearsing lines from Hamlet then good for you. But allow me to correct you. The correct phrasing is “the lady doth protest to much, methinks”.

It’s hardly surprising you’re a fan of Shakespeare’s. You’re almost as old as he is.

Better still run along back to the golf course and dream of carrying John Key's clubs given your such a fan. But you’re not political are you Hangler? One thing I can assure you of is that he will never carry your rods, but he would happily steal your fish.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Hangler <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Hangler' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 4:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Rex, I am very aware of the correct wording to Shakespeare's quote, if you read what I typed it says to paraphrase him: to alter the words for better clarity.

I have no idea what is wrong with you and other posters, you are totally unable to answer any contrary opinion without vitriol and personal attacks, although this is strictly against the site's rules. I respect your opinion even though I disagree with you. I don't need to insult you by doing so, I feel once you reach that level of debate you are only showing an inability to phrase alternative points of view.

Yes I do believe the fishing in Hawke's Bay has improved, or at least my catches and those weighed in by the Pania club members and written about on these boards seem to suggest so. Two huge snapper in the last week with many reports of fish lost or not recorded.

Anyway, I will stick with my opinion, I am very happy with the minister's decision. I am pleased he is trying something new regarding the commercial guys catching small fish, and I am not about to condemn his ideas until they are proven not to work.

I think everyone should give the MPI a fair go, these changes could have been far worse. It was originally suggested the catch could be cut to three fish with a size limit of 35cm, both proved to be nothing more than scaremongering, this is quite normal and fully expected from the angling press.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Chad <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Chad' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 4:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Hangler, im going to shoot off the hip here, my god you talk and type rubbish bro. Do you have memory loss issues? A while back our fishery " according to you" was in the best state it has ever been. A month ago our fishery " according to you" was in a shocking state, now "according to you" our fishery is fine again?

Mate, stop typing bullshit, here is some fact for you, from the point of view of someone who spends bloody hours out there fishing!! Our fishery is a disaster! A joke, a fraction of what it has been,,,,,,,,,,,,, If this hits our shores too, without more being done with the commercial sector, it will do nothing for our fishery. We will take a hit, commercial dont.

I would respect your opinions much more Hangler, if they didn't change like the wind. Take some meds and get back to reality.

Whilst the cameras and GPS are fantastic changes that will improve the situation, is it honestly enough? does this fix the current situation? is a camera going to improve our breeding stocks? are the penalties hard enough for them not to switch them off, dump the fish, and take the fine? Are you satisfied- really? If this comes to HB would you be happy?

Piss off.............................................................. Its a bloody joke....... we will be releasing fish for them to catch........

25cm????? come on really? how is that fair or an issue addressed hangler?

Trawling- killing everything........ sharks, eels, the whole bloody lot........... how is this for the best Hangler? Before I say job well done......... do the job properly, the writing is on the wall, our fishery gets closer to being defunct everyday...........

And then to say it is a 50/50, not having a bar of it........

Wairoa
Hawkesbay

Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Bugger!

Posted by GrantBOP <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=GrantBOP' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 5:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

25cm was to help reduce wastage so they are not dumping even more. No i don't agree with trawling but it dose make sense when its to help reduce wastage. Also with the current system in place the fishery is getting better, its been on the improve for the last ten years. The only things that have changed is the size that the sustainable biomass needs to be. Ten years ago it was around 20%, which it is starting to near, but now they are saying we need 40%. Along with this there is a third more rec fishers in this area than there was ten years ago.
The biggest concern i have is we all look at commercial as being people who make money off fishing, so why isn't charter operators put in this category, they are taking paying people out to catch fish. If this was the case it would free up a lot of rec fishing quota.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Chad <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Chad' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 5:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

That was the purpose Grant, but the other side of that ledger is, change the method to longlines and we will have significant reductions. What we throw back they will take, they don't get everything, but certainly not far from it. I would encourage you to come to the bay and try to catch a fish mate, not an easy task. BOP is plentiful and one of the best fisherys in NZ, when these changes impact the rest of NZ, it will do nothing for us and everything for the commercials. BOP results have been as low at 7% recently and on last counts are well down, they are no where near what they have been in the past also.

I would have to see figures to believe it has been on the raise for the past 10 years. I say it is declining through most peoples results and comparing the past with the now, not conclusive, but a good indication.

These changes do nothing for a recreational angler, nothing at all. As stated before, I don't care if my limit is cut to 5, so long as the commercial take a sufficant hit to improve our fishery.

At least if they long lined, they could target species, and certain sized fish, id be all for that. As previously mentioned, its not just the snapper, think of the gurnard, kahawai, tope, lemons, the lot....... killed for no reason, tiffed over the side in many cases. This will still continue, no quota, cant keep it.....

Wairoa
Hawkesbay

Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Chad <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Chad' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 5:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Another point, a 25cm snapper is around 250g.

A 30cm snapper is around 580g

A 38cm snapper is around 1kg

A 48cm Snapper is around 2kg.

A tonne of 2kg snapper caught on a longline would equate to 500 fish. Fish that have had a chance to grow to a sufficant size and ready to be harvisted.

A tone of 25cm snapper is around 4000, 8 x the total amount of 2kg fish are required, for about 60% less meat.

How many tonne of this little buggers are killed each year? If they took half of these fish at an older stage at a better size we would all benefit. The answer, longlining.

Another statistic not realised is the millions of 3-15cm snapper killed by nets each year........... yes millions..........

Wairoa
Hawkesbay

Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Charlie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Charlie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 9:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Yes I agree millions of little fish killed and dumped.I think there has to be a better way.Commercial fishing has been doing the same old thing over and over little fish being killed.
Most of us when we go out in a boat and catch a small fish we change our gear bigger baits,bigger hooks so we try not to catch the little ones.What does the commercial boats do same old same old never change keep catching the little ones.Them along with the government should work out a method of not catching them.There has got to be a better way.
I am certain that the way this fishing thing is governed in 30 years or so you will not be allowed to catch any snapper at all and it will be left only to the commercial fishers.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by GaryK <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=GaryK' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 18/9/2013, 11:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

You can read my thoughts in the next Fishing News mag. My main point and the easiest fix is to make commercial snapper fishing a hook and line fishery. I have spoken to snapper longline commercial fishers who say that they have little wastage and certainly no need to dump fish. They can target species and even fish by size for the market and release unwanted fish. It has to be the way to go.
The 25cm commercial limit is ridiculous if we are going to increase recreational length limits.
What use is a 25cm snapper? Soup fish? Get a life, a snapper is better off being allowed to grow to a useful size if you eat them, and trophy size if you just want to catch them.
I saw snapper ( about 50) in a fish market in Hawaii. They were labelled "New Zealand Snapper", not one of those would have been over 25 cms.
I asked where they came from and was told New Zealand. The fishmonger said that was the size his customers wanted and that they would not buy bigger ones. Think about that for a minute.
30 cms is a fair size but do we know enough about what size we should be harvesting? Australia has slotting in some areas, seems to work for them.
A 40cm snapper would be a good eating size I reckon. Have they spawned before reaching that size? How many times? Is it a good size to remove from the fishery? Do we know these things. How detrimental is it to take a snapper over 80cms? Would that harm the fishery or are they past spawning?
I think there is a lot more we need to know before messing with this too much. It matters not who is catching the 25cm snapper if they are the ones that need to stay in the fishery.

The snapper don't know where the car park is!
Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by Rex HB <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=Rex+HB' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 19/9/2013, 8:09 am, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Well put Gary. I advocated longlining only in my submission for snapper. What sort of fishery would we have if no nets were used within say 10 ks ks of the shoreline? It is achievable if you push past the National Party cronies masquerading as fishermen and there meek and mild friends. Real fishermen stand up and say no.

Re: Bugger!

Posted by fin-nor <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/surfcasting/info/user=fin-nor' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on 19/9/2013, 12:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Bugger!"

Gary those are bloody good points you have bought up I look forward to seeing your article in the NZFN it is bound to get more attention this bloody big debacle called commercial fishing. I too want to see an end put to the use of nets especially bottom trawlers I would honestly say that the snapper population would boost up again if they got rid of the nets and made it strictly longline only it is more selective and no small fish get crushed and killed like they do in trawling. If all those fish of a potentially good breeding size kept being taken the way they are now it is no wonder that there is trouble in paradise with the snapper and as for seeing snapper under 25cm is fish shops over seas I have to give a big WTF is going on there something stinks of rotten fish and it is these politically backed companies being allowed to get away with it. All well and good about putting cameras on board boats to try and catch out the illegal dumpers etc etc etc but they can very easily be sabotaged or obstructed and as for saying they have to put back trophy sized fish that is not good enough Commercial size limits must be increased and quotas decreased if the sustainability of our fisheries is to be achieved.

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