Posted by dereklane on June 2, 2019, 7:57 am, in reply to "Re: Some"
"Might hold a little water if the stats weren't as they are: i.e., pls you explain why 70% of those with no post-16 education voted Leave, and 68% of those with a degree voted Remain. " Again you return to this, as though this is evidence of stupidity because one side is something you agree with as being evidence of intelligence (otherwise it wouldn't be mentioned).
But as a possible alternative perspective (I've actually got no idea and won't commit to grasping at straws), people with no tertiary education are statistically poorer. Having an arts degree doesn't give you the world but it's an indicator that you are from a background where the idea of wasting time in university is an option, affordable on some level. You may be thinking back many years to find a time when rich and poor could equally access university education realistically. That has not been the case for many years.
In other words, from an analytical perspective, we might well be looking at how the well off view leaving the eu (change to wealth prospects in unknown quantities is bad) vs how the poor view leaving the eu (change to the wealth prospects of the well off in Unknown quantities is better than no change at all). Those decrying that of course, saying that it will affect all, seem to be the same folk who forever told the poor that trickle down economics benefits the poor. The poor know better on that from first hand experience, therefore it's possible they also see the ruse on this argument too.
You see? You're prescribing their position on brexit by the list of tabloid papers telling them that's what they should have voted, as though they have no brains of their own. Worse than that, you're ignoring the hoity toity media telling the wealthy that brexit is madness (which they've been doing for years now), as though the wealthy do have brains of their own, and these purported brains are not checked into long term deposit accounts at several banks along with all their maturing nest eggs.
The point is, you believe what you believe because of where you're sitting (on brexit), but I think you should believe something different on those that voted against your wishes (something less bigoted and dismissive) because of where you are at this minute (here at the lbn). That is, not put them into a box of stupidity and invent reasons why you think they are there. Like that they're not educated, because that's clearly a nonsense reason, as explained in the preceding posts here. You want it to be true, no doubt. For some people, it is true. Both sides of the debate, without doubt.
As a quick example before I go; I went to a pub quiz recently, probably 50-50 farmers and university educated individuals (I knew everyone, it's a country area, with London blow ins looking for a prettier backdrop to their usual work). There was a question on when the eu was formed. I insisted it was 1993. My group put that down despite raised eyebrows, and we were marked wrong, quizmaster going with early 70s, and everyone else I the room apparently satisfied.
There is ignorance, no doubt, everywhere. In all walks of life facts get in the way of a good narrative, it seems. I'm not trying to divide the room into educated and uneducated because that's foolish. I could divide it into poor and well off and I'd be closer (me and my partner are the only ones renting in this village for example, and mainly because we can't afford the rent closer into town anymore). More to the point , particularly on brexit, I'd say few people of any consistent type are looking at it dispassionately enough to see the potential issues either direction. I can, I think. The eu is not mine, I get few obvious benefits from it (like holidaying in Spain and not having to worry about visas, because I'm not a citizen). As an Australian I know that if I became a political prisoner I wouldn't be protected by either the eu or Australia. I can't trade in the eu because I have no money to do trade. And so on. I admit I'm being facetious now, but it seemed relevant to bring other stuff in.
Anyway, I'm not obviously going to change your mind. You can add me to your list of the uneducated not getting why the eu is so great and we can all move on!