Posted by Bluefool
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Posted by Bluefool
Re: I haven't seen the video, but here are my arguments against going vegan Archived Message
on November 15, 2019, 9:08 am, in reply to "Re: I haven't seen the video, but here are my arguments against going vegan"
> do you know how much arable land is currently used for growing feed for livestock? One third. That chucks a bit of a stick in the spokes, right there.
Why does it? You could raise animals on that land instead! 
> Animals eat a lot more than humans on a day to day basis
Then why is only one third of arable land used for feeding animals? Two thirds is a bigger number than one third and that doesn't account for the animals that humans eat but food animals don't.
> and the conversion in terms of energy is absolutely shite. It's not an efficient way of using land to produce food.
This chap disagrees: http://blogs.oregonstate.edu/dairy/2016/12/12/ruminants-important-world-might-thought/ 
Previous MessageGrazing ruminant animals is an efficient way to produce food for humans. Grazing animals on land that is unsuitable for crop production more than doubles the land area in this country that can be used to produce food. Ruminant animals can use plant cell walls as a major source of dietary fiber and energy. The polysaccharides in plant cell walls cannot be degraded by mammalian enzymes, which is why humans cannot effectively use grass as food. However, ruminants are uniquely adapted mammals that depend on microbial fermentation in one of their stomachs, the rumen. With this adaptation, ruminants are especially capable at using plant fiber for energy. Fiber, measured as neutral detergent fiber (NDF), usually accounts for 30-80% of the organic matter in forage crops. The remaining organic matter is almost completely digestible by a ruminant’s own enzymes. It is this unique digestive system that allows ruminant animals to consume poor quality forages and transform them into high quality meat and milk. And because so much of the world is covered with range and pasture lands, it only makes sense that sustainable communities and sustainable agriculture include grazing animals.
> Alao not sure where the idea that people eating just meat are going to be healthier!!?
Personally I've been doing it (I also eat eggs and dairy) for about a year and my health has been transformed. Fit as a butcher's dog, you might say!
Lots of good resources on this. Dr. Ken Berry posts lots of good information about the benefits of a meat only diet on social media I believe (although I don't use social media so that's second hand information). He recently did a video about it helping to prevent/cure cancer and straight afterwards his house and surgery were both fire-bombed. So it must be upsetting someone with means!
There's more information on carnivore diets on DR. Kevin Stock's website, but he also does body building so there's more pictures of him standing looking ripped in his grundies than I'm personally interested in.
Traditionally there's been lots of people living long healthy lives as full carnivores. Like people at very northern latitudes, Inuit, Sami, Siberians, etc. and also Native American tribes (like the Pima I think, who went from being renowned for their health and strength to being chronically ill when then were introduced to western diets) and the Masai.
> As for 'good soil' - show me the good soil in any Welsh sheep farming operation - the pasture is so degraded they can't even raise enough for their own (tiny) consumption because the way they've operated is idiotic.
You've got me, my knowledge of Welsh sheep farming is minimal at best, but from what you say about it it doesn't sound like a fair yardstick. If someone manages something in a way that's "idiotic" then it's hardly surprising that their results are bad.
> Farming, as is, needs to be re-thought from top to bottom
I totally agree with that and certainly have misgivings about methods of meat production.