- Re: Great vegan athletes Archived Message
Posted by walter
on November 15, 2019, 7:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Great vegan athletes"
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"Vegans I've spoken to tend to be trying to "eat the rainbow" and such. As it's hard to get full nutrition from only plant sources, you have to eat a wide variety of stuff or you will get malnourished. Vegans have told me this so I'm going off that." You have to ensure you get some vitamin B12 and for some people (pre-menopausal women particularly) watch your iron levels. Apart from those issues, it's not hard at all (drops dead...  ). "I'm sure some people can be healthy and vegan, but that doesn't necessarily follow that they wouldn't be healthier as carnivores!" Like with like? Not eating any old meaty crap, surely!? I think you would need decent quality, as you probably make sure you get. (Me) "What's the value of this digestive argument, we don't physically resemble predators any more than plant-eaters." (You) "I believe we do. Large brains and small digestive tracts. Look at a herbivore. Huge bodies and small brains because the energy required for a digestive system that will properly break down plant matter didn't give their brains enough energy to evolve to be more complex. We are predators with grasping hands and our eyes at the front of our heads and not at the sides like prey animals." I don't buy the energy argument, when some of their bodies are ten times the size of ours. Brains might use energy, but I think they evolve due to environmental stimulation and necessity. I'm of the view that the hands were likely key in this. We were hunter-gatherers - eyes at the front for those awkward to pull spring onions "I believe cooking can make meat easier to digest, but that doesn't change the basic nutritional value of foods." Well it would if the nutrients weren't available except by cooking. "Evolution takes thousands of years and longer. Humans evolved into humans because they were able to use their ability to wield tools to crack marrow bones of carcasses left by bigger hunters and get at the fat inside them. Our brains are made largely of fat so hence were able to grow (on an evolutionary time scale of countless generations I mean). Also this made our digestive tracts like those of carrion eaters. Short and highly acid." That's all a bit selective. Any sharp claws and long canines for tearing apart that natural flesh food? How about your jaw, why does it move from side to side like a herbivore's. Why do you have those back molars if not for grinding that fibrous veg. And digestive tracts of humans are not that "highly acid", eg: "Comparisons of stomach acidity across trophic groups in mammal and bird taxa show that scavengers and carnivores have significantly higher stomach acidities compared to herbivores or carnivores feeding on phylogenetically distant prey such as insects or fish." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26222383 Check out your Dr Berry stuff (isn't that name a hint, lol!) on Pubmed not youtube vids. I don't even go there (youtube) to watch my own quacks! I might use a vid for motivation but they're not good for gathering or checking evidence, usually just opinions. On the muscle thing - it's worked for you but I don't see the logical connection - eating more meat lost you a stone and a half of beer gut. So you also cut out beer then? More generally, poor exercise and high BMI are thought (evidenced) to put people at cardiac risk - have you thought about this advice you have seen on a long term scale? "I'm not saying I'm Dolph Lundgren now. As I say I don't exercise, but I'm no longer out of breath or keeling over when I have to leg it for the train. I feel stronger though and the missus says I look it. I'm more agile and have much more energy. I'm also a stone and a half of beer gut lighter from it. Also I have fewer aches and pains, I get fewer colds and they're much less severe, my digestion is much happier, my eczema has disappeared, I didn't get hay fever this year. Mentally I'm less anxious and the missus says (and I agree) that her bouts of depression have gone. She's been strict carnivore for about 18 months. Me slightly less strict but for about 10 months with 5 months being ultra low carb before that." Well you said you'd lost weight...what nutrients do you attribute your wellbeing to. BTW, almost everything has been 'linked' loosely to depression or not having it - except exercise, which I've never seen any claims of a negative effect. But argument apart, glad something you're doing or not doing has worked for you. "Not sure what "abstract excuses" refers to. I don't deny the power of instinct, but it can easily be hijacked by narrative. When everyone's telling you something is the best way and giving cute reasons for it, then it can probably seem pretty instinctive. Doesn't mean it's not snake oil though." Doesn't this apply much more to your argument that growing crops kills small animals? My side of things is hardly hijacked by cute reasons - putting animals in slaughterhouse necessitates, tangibly, killing them. And as you say, research on that first part is very small - might appeal to you, but is it not likely that's because of you're looking for justification? I'll wait for the research saying that killing animals kills less than not killing them. I'm likely to wait a long time for that research, though. If as I understand it, you need about ten times the land to farm cattle (including feed) as to grow crops, even if more small animals were killed on the land that was for crops, it wouldn't affect the comparison much. I'm surprised you buy that argument so readily. Sorry I'm a bit rushed to do this properly, with evidence etc (maybe you're the same), apologies for any errors. I'd recommend (maybe you have already?) looking at medical studies (you can put in search keyword words to that Pubmed link I mentioned) before wholeheartedly throwing yourself into diets that run so counter to established medical opinion. That's rich coming from me, I accept! Thanks for the chat Bluefool. Cheers W |