Iam thinking about signing up to "The Good Garage Scheme" run by Forte. Do any of you have any worthwhile feed back, good or bad about it?

As they say, "any publicity is good publicity" but time will tell.

Looks good from the outset, our only stipulation is that we get customers authorisation before adding any treatments/flushes to their vehicles, something we have always done, I dont want to end up with a reception full of customers saying they are not paying for anything unauthorised, even though Forte say they will reimburse us for any that the customer will not pay for. I would rather not get in that position to start with.

Replies from others who have been on the scheme longer would be appreciated.

Andy

Here is an extract from the first handbook I laid my hands on:

"Oil to the correct specification contains additives
which disperse the corrosive acids formed by
combustion and prevent the formation of sludge
which can block the oil ways. Additional oil additives or flushes should not be used."

Good luck if it's working well for you, I'm just interested. I do use Forte products & happy when I use them, it's just I wouldn't want them used in my car without giving my permission first.

Regards
Steve

No one is telling porkies

Forte flush and fuel additives are officially approved by Vauxhall (have that from the horses mouth)

Also our local Merc main dealer uses a flush and fuel additive on every service

So i don't think warranty issues are an issue

Peter

How many of us can remember far enough back to the 'Life on Mars' era. When all new Renaults had a decal on the rocker cover stating 'Le rincage du moteur est interdit' or 'flushing the engine is forbidden'.

Tom W

Regards all
Dave

If you Q a price for a service inclusive of X,Y & Z and this includes a Forte flush, then I see no problem with this. However if it is not included in the price then advice should be sought from the customer before using such products. I would also agree with Daves suggestion of having a large point of sale notice adivising customers of the use of additives/flushes during the service.

Mike

I think that most customers do not even read the invoice to see what has been charged for. The IMPORTANT thing for them is the bottom line, the cost !!!
They will judge you on that, not what additive's you charge, using extras, will push the end price up & make you less competitive.
If you must use these extras make sure the customer is aware of benefits, and appreciates the extra charge.

Aidan

We have been told we must follow the Good Garage Scheme Industry Standard Service schedule if we want to stay on the scheme, which unfortunatley we are not happy to do, it's the only schedule that we have seen that includes additives as part of schedule.

We are happy to continue using the products, but only with customer instruction or authorisation.

Andy

We were approaced by a Forte Rep,a nice chap who has been in the the repair business many years, i have given the idea of joining a considerable amount of thought, however after kicking the thought around and carrying out the for's and againsts its not for us.

1:Our customers Mercedes Service litreture states clearly no additives are to be added to the engine oil!

2:I believe these products have a place, like most here they have helped clear up a rattly hydrolic lifter etc, however im not happy to stand in front a customer and sale these products based on raw need in every service! (I honestly don't think this is the best option for a proffesional scheme!)

3:Im not happy with the mechanic in the tin approach which this company seams to be driving towards with their litriture of vehicle fixes etc.

Sorry guys im 100% confident this scheme is being sold to us for all the wrong reasons,if you need to make a few extra grand a year then stick a few pounds on your labour charge and stay focused on your cutomers true needs,this is my proffesional opinion, or maybe not so proffesional, as im not a member of the scheme

Best Regards

Darren Winsley

Keith

We've not joined yet, but I am seriously thinking about it, but it would only be for the reason you mentioned.....there are a few other garages in our area that are already on there.

Sean

I have just received a marketing Campaign Plan in the post this morning

Radio campaign:
September 10th to October 5th
4,087 slots in 4 weeks
Various slots during the day
Leading local radio stations

Daily Mail on Saturday:
September 22nd and 29th
Quarter page colour advertisement

Leaflet Campaign:
2 million leaflets
Across 362 areas
Delivered in free newspapers
Repeated over 2 weeks
September 24th and October 1st

Having been a UCCC for many years (not now) there was never any commitment by them on this scale

Where this scheme stands out is the professionalism from marketing to website and stationery, but the best part of all is the FEEDBACK cards that you give out with every job. At the end of the day its satisfied customers that determine your garages success, not some suit with a clipboard and a £700:00 cheque of yours in his back pocket

All the feedback is entered onto the site for local customers to view. If you are getting a few negative feedbacks, then Forte will contact you to try and resolve the issues, if they cannot be resolved then you will be removed from the scheme

I think this scheme will come out on top through natural selection, and Trading Standards will have to take note.

There will be a cap on the membership numbers, so it will not be a free for all

HTH with any decision making

Peter

PS: Yes, Yes i know you have to use Forte products, but its far less than some of the other **** Service Centres want you to commit to, plus most car owners would think ***** Service is a place to get your tumble drier repaired (i have also heard now that if you have ***** Diagnostic Kit you can have a ***** logo to stick on your workshop door, phew glad i did not spend 2k on all the other official stuff)

The way i worded it was not very good. What i meant was that it will not be on offer to every garage, the number will be capped at around 4,000 eventually (so i believe)

Yes you are correct a fee of £10:00 plus is payable by DD every month, but you get that back on the first two sales of Flush

Peter

We did sign up for the scheme, but were removed when we refused to engine flush and install fuel treatment etc on every vehicle without getting the customers consent.

I personally would'nt change brakes, tyres etc on a customers car without authority, so why use products that although may work, have'nt been aked for.

There are lots of products on the market to improve this and that, but dont come with free advertising, so does that make it alright to fit????

Andy

The reason why is that I do not think I could keep to the Code of practice. I cannot stand behind the Counter and hand on heart sell a Fuel System Cleaner to every customer that does not need it and in must cases will not see any benifit short term. I know a good garage that has been taken off the GGS for this very thing.

Although I have no problems regarding Engine Flush we recommend this on every service for obviouse reasons. I have a major problem just adding these required items to the invoice it's not the way one should do business, refund policy or not it's wrong. It's a shame because it's a good idea in todays market with people now internet savvy. I cannot critisize other garages for joining, at this moment in time it's not for me. If the wording on the tin said one would only have to fit these products if and when needed, I would have been one of the first garages to join.

Keith

We were an AA approved garage before they sold out to Halfords. At that time we looked around for some sort of replacement standards scheme that had a decent profile and were not able to find anything.

My opinion is this sort of thing was a long time coming and fills the vacuum left by trade associations, the TS and governments etc not being able to agree on anything for years now.
Forte took the initiative and are doing a very good job of it. They offer a website creation service, the ability to include images of your workshop on the GGS site as well as a good marketing strategy (just type good garage into Google and it is the top of the hit list) including comprehensive advertising on radio, local freebie papers and two nationals. As for cost? The RMI(of which we are also members) cost a lot more per year in subs and are far less effective than GGS!
My advice to anyone thinking of joining is do it now before they limit the numbers.

I have said this before on an older thread....

"If you have a busy workshop, happy customers & you maintain sensible standards of quality control & fair-trading then you are achieving your objectives."

Why the hell would anyone want to place the promotion of their business in the hands of a consumables supplier? These guys are visiting our workshops to move their additives END OFF! They maybe good additives & I am not saying otherwise.

I can see the attraction of having an Internet presence that is made simple by joining the scheme, but is this enough of a reason to jump aboard? I have my own website that has been running for a few years. It gets me some work for sure, but the vast majority of my business is generated through word of mouth recommendation. This can only be achieved through hard work & good service.

My advice is, keep your money in your pocket & concentrate on keeping your current customers happy. let them spread the word about the virtues of what you do.

Works for me. (until now anyway )

Cheers for now

Dave (Hill)

The British Standards Institute has launched a new website to enable drivers to find a licensed garage for service and repairs. The site is www.bsi-global.com/en/ProductServices/Automotive/ and uses the BSI’s famous logo as a way of marking out dealers offering top quality work.

The scheme has credibility because of the organisation behind it, but it joins an ever-growing list of ‘good garage guides’. An hour on the Internet revealed eight alternative schemes running in the UK, mostly using a postcode search facility to locate a supposedly reputable operator in your area. Some are backed by automotive trade bodies, while one features garages with just one positive review by a supposedly independent satisfied customer.

Keith

If Paul went to his chinese takeaway, that was a member of the good "chinese takeaway guide", and they charged him for a curry sauce that he did not ask for or want, but had still charged him for it, would he still think that being able to google them was so fantastic.

Andy

We have been using engine flush for about 12 years from Wurth, Unipart, Wynn's, Forte ect. We did stop for a while but after quite a few services when the oil looked just as black we soon went back to using it and have NEVER had any complaints from a customer, many expect us to use it

We only stock the flush, petrol and diesel additive. We put an additive in the tank, if customers question this, then yes we will let them have it FOC

We NEVER fit or use anything that is not beneficial to the customer and the vehicle

You also have to look at the bigger picture. The "Good Garage Scheme" is not just about using a flush or additive, many potential customers are Googling the Good Garage Scheme because there are looking for a reliable garage to fit Tyres, Exhausts, Suspension, Wheel bearings, Diagnostics, Engine replacements, Headgaskets, MOT, MOT repairs, Gearboxes (need i go on). This is were the scheme comes into its own

How many garages use a 5w40 fully synthetic oil at £7.50 a Lr when a 10w40 at £3:50 a Lr will do just as well........is this not overcharging by stealth?. You tell your customer the 5w40 fully synthetic is better for their engine, (only because a rep has told you) non of us are oil technology experts

Peter

I know they ask you to use a flush and additive on every service, but like yourself you have to use your own judgment on weather a particular vehicle requires them or you think the customer will kick off

Take this morning, i have a 1999 Golf 1.6 in for a 40k service, this was serviced back in January, but the customer was disappointed with the work, (no filters or plugs changed) so she has asked us to go over it. We have changed the oil without a flush as it still looked quite clean. I will also hold my hands up and say that i have not used a flush and additive on other occasions, if in my opinion they did not require them. If Forte in-forced this to the letter the scheme would get a bad reputation from within the motor trade plus if the Forte rep is putting undue pressure on you to do it by the book (by that i mean flush and additives added at EVERY service), then i would also think again. This is an agreement between two companies both trying to make profit so Forte would sooner you used their product over a competitor

I know Forte have pulled off a marketing coup over their rivals, but if they commit to the scheme as i am sure they will, it will do a lot to clean up our motor trade image, i am all for that

Peter

Keith

Mike

"I would like to know what makes a garage eligible to be classed as a good garage and who ensures they meet this criteria"

1) I would like to know what makes a garage eligible to be classed as a good garage:

I believe trade associations, trading standards and the government have been trying to answer this one for the last 40 years, thats why nothing ever sticks, schemes come and go every few years

Being a good garage is not about having the biggest reception or the most sophisticated diagnostic equipment, it about being able to complete a job satisfactory within your garages capabilities.

But lets face it you are NEVER going to get 100% satisfaction from customers ALL the time. All you can do is address a problem as it arises and work it out to a satisfactory conclusion........the garages that are not willing to do this are the bad ones

2) Who ensures they meet this criteria:

Certainly no one with a clip board on a pre arranged day

Customer satisfaction is what counts, do a good job and they will come back or tell their friends. Don't be afraid to turn a job down if you do not have the right equipment or capabilities. Nothing worse than a half fixed job and an unhappy customer

At the end of the day "Self Regulation" is the only way. If YOU think you are a "Good Garage", then get on a scheme that will promote it for you

Peter

"no membership unless you buy their products"

You are not being cynical, just making honest observations

The same applies to "Unipart Car Care Centres" "Bosch Service" and many more, yes it does involve you using their products, but don't they all?

With the 5 star rating, yes only the good comments are put on the website, if there is a consistently poor feedback on the cards, then this will be addressed by the scheme (Forte), if it cannot be resolved then you will be asked to leave. You get back all the feedback cards from your customers to see where improvements can be made

Its a question of which scheme works best for you. We all need to make a living and a descent profit, i use their products anyway so it works for me........and their marketing power is second to non

Peter

PS: I have been a Unipart Car Care Centre twice, promoting the UCCC's to the media was always an issue......it never happened. Then they wanted £700:00 a year to join a "Good Garage Scheme" so i left. They enticed me back a few years later, then my "Express Factors" disappeared overnight FORCING me to use a motor factor i had no dealings with, so i left the UCCC scheme for good. This was about putting Uniparts interests first and UCCC second. With the Forte scheme the "Good Garages" come first, then that gives them a constant reliable revenue

Although initially its quite flattering to be told that you are in an exclusive club, it doesn’t take long to realise that this guy doesn’t know if you are a “bodge it & scarper” or the “honest & fair” style outfit. I politely told the guy that I didn’t feel it was right for us.

Why do some feel the need to be part of a scheme? The best endorsement that you can get is from your customers. Letters written by satisfied customers, displayed in the waiting room mean allot more than 5 stars on an impersonal web site.

I was told about promotional material & large billboard adverts at local supermarkets. I haven’t seen any! The majority of my trade comes from local “word of mouth” recommendations & Internet enquiries make up a very small percentage.

My situation maybe different to many here & my business experience is limited but I refuse to be drawn into the mindset, that I need to have the backing of “scheme” to promote what we do.

One final point…. (sorry to go on )

Why not try spending your advertising budget on your existing customers. Treat your regulars to a fee car wash as part of their full service, or something similar. Look after the ones you have got & they will spread the gospel. Before long you will be faced with the problem of…… “How the hell are we gonna get all these jobs done”. Now that is the right problem to have!

Cheers now

Dave (Hill)

Even VOSA now want to know why a customer will pass three or four Testing Stations to get to one particular Station. The public are not stupid they will find a Good Garage and stay loyal if they get good service and looked after. Stick to your principles you can't go wrong

Keith

"Even with uccc,s its not a hard sell"

If i choose to leave the Forte "Good Garage Scheme" at any, it would take 10 minutes to remove one sign, bin the stationery and cancel a standing order (i use the UKAT schedules all the time anyway). Nothing will change as we are always busy

When i was a UCCC they asked me to become part of a "Good Garage Scheme" which i could not understand as you needed vetting to become a UCCC in the first place. They told me it was going to cost £700:00 per year to keep my UCCC status. I had a call from the top Unipart BDM who told me in no uncertain terms, "pay up or your out". I value my Independent status highly and i was not going to be dictated to by my parts supplier. Hence every thing with a UCCC logo was removed at considerable expense. Now that is what i call PRESSURE from a supplier

Peter

PS: I do like a health debate . Also still have UCCC illuminated sign if anyone wants it (new type)

I did not realise that you were both UCCC's. If i was in your position i probably would not have signed up to the Forte scheme either. Both the UCCC's and Bosch Service have been around for and age and set their own standards. I see no reason to sign up to an additional scheme, this will only double up on paperwork, logo's etc

I do have one pet hate with Independents and that is all the signage that you see on some

**** Exhaust Centre
**** Clutch Centre
**** Brake Safety Centre
**** Shock Absorber Centre

All promoting different brands. I ban them all years ago, it's very confusing for the customer. Many of the Motor Factors sign you up to these "Schemes" and then six months later they drop that brand in favour of a another, its happened to me several times

You did mention about a Forte "Good Garage Scheme" member working from his house.......I also remember a Unipart Car Care Centre on Rogue Traders........a perfect world it ain't

Peter

I received a letter this morning telling me that Forte will audit GGS members annually - a good thing no doubt.

I will be audited within the next 4 weeks.

I have only had one enquiry from the scheme and I was unable to fit the gentleman in within the timescale he needed.

I have had very little, if any, benefit from the scheme so far - I think this will be a 2-way audit!

Regards,

Steve

Now either the rules have changed or different areas are singing from different song sheets.

Can anybody clear this up, as this was the whole reason we left the scheme, and given the choice to use the product or not, we would probably sign up again. (if they would have us back after all this debate)
Andy

having heard all the comments on this subject.i suggest what we who have signed up work with forte to develope the scheme. to ensure that being a GOOD GARARGE means that..... and is not based on whether we just use their additives. it must be policed and be open to scrutiny.

Keith

If some people use flushes and additives on every service, and some dont, is that not breaking the conditions of the scheme, and so making a nonsense of the whole thing.
People are obviously signing up for the marketing, and nothing else, because someone at Forte had the excellemt marketing idea of how to sell more of their products, and give something back to the trade, through owning the "GOOD GARAGE" web name.
As stated before, we use the excellent products, but how many people who have signed up can honestly say that they are sticking to the rules and not making a mockery of the whole thing.
Does not using the products on every sevice make us a bad garage?.
Andy

Remedy:
Internal lab and engine test bench investigation revealed that the usage of not released oil additives will cause
an increased engine oil consumption. In some cases the measured oil consumption has increased by 100%.
Modern Opel engines in combination with high quality engine oil do not need additives. Therefore the
usage of any not Opel released engine oil additive is disapproved. All related warranty claims will
be rejected.

That statement is a bit misleading as it states "Oil additives" ie: adding an additive after you have changed the oil, there is no reference to a pre oil change flush

Peter

WHAT. ??? More than the Excessive oil consumption that they already suffer with.?

Jees. Or is it just another ploy to cover up what they already know that Some GM engines Drink more oil than Enough, ???