- Re: Does anyone remember the "late surges" of the Independence referendum Archived Message
Posted by dereklane
on December 2, 2019, 8:54 am, in reply to "Re: Does anyone remember the "late surges" of the Independence referendum"
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Keith may have been providing one liners but I haven't, and Chris Rogers below hasn't. I've been met by one liner responses or dead silence, so apparently it goes both ways. Attempts to explain a perspective that is very obviously ringing true with s lot of once again disaffected labour voters seems to be being treated as heresy. It's disappointing, and feels more like a doctrine than a common sense response. Rhisiart has even suggested here on this thread that correct political analysis is the wrong approach! If it is for this issue then perhaps the best approach is simply to bury our heads in the sand on other issues too and pretend everything will be ok if we just stop harping on things. I'm guessing that the tories will win again without effort (I'd rather be wrong). If that happens, like in the us where the democrats are still blaming the majority for its shortcomings re trump, I suspect that labour supporters will do the same. and like in the us, the real culprit will have been monumental mismanagement and lack of provision of a viable alternative that the poor could see working for them. Not voting for corbyn might well be a final screw you and less a case of wanting the tories in. It might well change last minute for labour to gain power, but for most Brits, that is not going to be a day of victory but one of realistic cynicism. Nothing so far has suggested (aside from within indoctrinated circles) that labour under corbyn and alongside a bunch of toady blairites will do anything to change the lot of the poorest. Particularly since if it is a win, it will likely be a difficult house to manage even without the infighting. Many here seem convinced that this time we are dealing with the devil incarnate via the tories rather than just another demon, and by extension jc is the messiah. Neither are true, but we are on a downward trajectory nevertheless. The mistake is believing that one election will make a joy of difference to the chunk of us without pennies. I still believe that the difference between perspectives on this site correlates closer to class and economics than to any well formed political arguments, at least for those approaching middle class income/assets. All the petty arguments about AS in labour has put a lot of people off (because when your daily battles relate to finding rent and food money, debating such stuff shows priorities that are not the same; do I spent time maintaining I look right and speak right, or fix the goddamn problems affecting the poor?). All the back tracking relating to the leave vote has done the same, and the belligerent and doctrinal tying to abject evil that remainers have associated with it. If people are sore that labour is struggling in the campaign, I believe they should own it, but right here on this media discussion page most are doing the opposite. It's depressing. Right, now I prepare to be either ignored or disregarded with one liners! |